Why Kata?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by yuen, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    Ikemiyagi Masaaki That name does sound familar to me but im not sure... :s

    Goju Ryu although i have never done this form on karate myself when i was doing shotokan in cambridge my teacher oftain spoke highly of all forms of karate...well, actually this is going to be a mystory

    i did karate when i was very young in derby (i moved from derby to cambride them leicester in the uk...sucked having to start again)...i to be really honest cannot remember hardly anything of this karate however i cant remember much from when i was below 11...but, i know it was karate, i'll see if i can find anything because i know i have some old grading certificates somewhere i'll try and find what it was...but that being said, dont remember so i dont count it as experience as a child that struggled with learning difficults so high, its not suprising to me, lucky im not as bad its only when..you get 1 step number 13 or 15...such like i'll get confused on order, its the only way it effects the martial arts :D

    I did enjoy shotokan however for its forms, might have been just that club but they had extreme love for kata...the only part that made me prefer changing club was they didnt do any free sparring which is my favouate part with learning history aswell :)
     
  2. monkeywrench

    monkeywrench Valued Member

    Thank you! You reminded me of what I really liked about that book and that is the historical background of kata. The technical stuff made my eyes glaze over honestly.
     
  3. lma

    lma Valued Member

    So many reasons most have been mentioned . The main reason I train is it helps you think out side the box. Each move can have so many possible meanings . It helps with reaction time and muscle memory
     
  4. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    It's a load of balls. I'll personally smack the crap out of anyone who thinks Kata is actually useful for learning to fight. And I'll say it sober. Had a diet lapse.
     
  5. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    Guess i'll be first in line for a smack then. Cause of course kata is related to and can help teah you how to fight.
     
  6. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    smack
     
  7. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I'll stand in line for you to try.

    Of course I'll add that it's not as useful as training the same techniques with a partner or doing pad/bag work.
     
  8. tkd GU

    tkd GU Valued Member

    I don't think anybody is out to make the claim that one can learn to fight using only kata, but still it has its own value. If you did karate or some tma years ago and are currently training mma or boxing or whatever, just try your old kata with power, and the resulting soreness in your body will tell you that kata can be a good form of conditioning, especially if you don't have a partner or any equipment.
     
  9. monkeywrench

    monkeywrench Valued Member

    I'm not even gonna reply to this.

    Just give me my smack so I can get on with my day.
     
  10. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    I did TKD. Kata is completely dead exercise and what few limited gains it has are found in much much MUCH greater quantities elsewhere with far greater results. It also teaches you nothing about the most important aspects of fighting. Any time spent doing kata when learning to fight is a waste of time.
     
  11. jumpfor joy

    jumpfor joy Valued Member

    it's how you look at it

    Personaly, I do enjoy Kata's. I find them relaxing and helpful with breathing and balence if nothing more, I also find them to exersize my thinking and memory it brings some peace to combinations, I also feel forms are benifical to maintaining balence when turning quickly and moving shifting stances. I practice forms in the morning to start my day.
     
  12. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    For how most people interpret it, yes it is. For how most people just practice a kata, rather than truly analyze and train it, yes it is. If you actually look to what a kata is (according to Iain Abernethy, "a way to record and summarise the key combative techniques and principles of a fighting style") then yes most of the ways people just practice it is poor.

    Many of the old karateka a lot of us respect and admire though have said in the past that if you are just practicing kata without learning to apply them in live situations then you're wasting your time.
     
  13. lma

    lma Valued Member

    When I seen your original post I ignored it as I thought you were just a normal person that didnt understand kata (and no im not saying there is some mystical power in it to be learned). Now you have just proven me right with the above comment. No offence to TKD but if that's the Kata's you learned no wonder you dont like them . TKD Kata's are a waste of time (again maybe im missing something, ive trained in them a little but not to the degree of Karate kata's) . From what Ive seen there most advanced kata's look like Shotokan karate's most basic Heian Shodan.

    Granted some of our advanced Kata's like Hengetsu is a bit obsolete because some say its application is producing lower body strength. Im sure it does but not as well as hitting the gym and doing weights. So in that respect of fitness its dead.

    But muscle memory or Bunkai and thinking outside the box there isnt a better way. You seem like type of person that going to say this is rubbish if you are please enlighten me to what would make you better at these two things than Kata.

    I have used things learned in kata to defend my self when I was 15 so I do know it works.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The question is not so much whether it works - clearly anything that teaches a technique into muscle memory has value. The question is more a case of why do it when there are many other things that achieve combat effectiveness in a faster, more efficient manner.

    Kata is fine from a style preservation aspect, but combatively it is low down the totem compared to other methods. To me it is more like rigid shadowboxing

    If it works for you fine - but most of it is style preservation/art rather than combat prep
     
  15. lma

    lma Valued Member

    Please enlighten me to what would work better for muscle memory over a vast range of moves? Yes I could sit and drill basic for hours on end and probably get same results not better but similar.
    Sparring is good but not for muscle memory and its impractical to train it as long or as convenient as I can kata.

    Kata is not rigid its anything but what may seem like a sequence to other people and yes there is rules to follow just like and Martial art but each time we do Kata at my clubs its a little different each time. I can understand why you can see it a little like shadow boxing.

    Dont know if im aloud to post links but here is one might help you understand.
    http://seinenkai.com/art-bunkai.html
     
  16. Simon

    Simon Back once again Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    My understanding is that it takes 21 hours to obtain good muscle memory.

    So if you are only doing a move for 10 minutes per day, 3 days per week, you are looking at 8.5 months just to get decent muscle memory for one movement and that is only if you are drilling it correctly.
    This puts into perspective just how much good training is required.
     
  17. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Ummm with respect could it not be that the problem is with the implementation of kata at the club you trained.

    I don't use kata much in the karate I teach and that's fine by me... Over the years I have had friends who teach different styles of karate some use kata a LOT some not at all.

    Most people simply do not understand how to train kata to make them efficient in a conflict situation... It can be done and when it is well done it is awesome - but it's not everyones cup of tea...

    Have fun...
     
  18. lma

    lma Valued Member

    21 hours I thought It would be more than that ? its good to know!

    I tend to try to stick to one Kata for ages but I may stick to it for a little longer now ....
     
  19. Simon

    Simon Back once again Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    This is 21 hours of perfect movements. Further time is required with poor technique and fatigue.
     
  20. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    If you think of it less as something you fight with, and more as a resource to which you can get fighting applications from, it becomes a whole different story. Just because you practice the kata does not mean you don't have to train all the different applications though.
     

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