Why Kata?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by yuen, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Double thanks.
  2. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    No we don't. They're never pretty, never friendly and never result in anyone changing their mind one bit.

    Kata debate = :bang:
  3. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Kata's, forms, patterns, their all a good way to drag out a perfectly love belt testing.
  4. Th0mas

    Th0mas Valued Member

    It's amazing how over the last 10 years or so things have changed... in fact in the last 2 years it certainly seems that the concensus has shifted to an understanding that kata is a record of fighting principles and techniques and forms the basis for exploring fighting and self-defence applications against common-acts-of-violence.

    Things have become much more pragmatic, no more bunkai defence against karate attacks from four different directions, or double blocks from opposite directions.

    This is a good thing... it is just a funny observation and further highlights some of the nonscence I was taught back in the 80's. No one was at fault, people just didn't know any better and if they did there wasn't the internet to propagate alternative views...:)
  5. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    I think what i like about kata (there not my favouate part of martail arts but i like them)...

    There is so many of them, interpritations of them...so many applications...and there is so many of them all very different...

    Anyone got a favouate kata they like to practice? (Dont know if there is a thread about this so sorry if there is)...but i think its interesting because everyone has there personal favouate...personally mine is Bassi :)
  6. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    craptons of them. lately i've been training a lot of naihanchi shodan, though.
  7. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    That is a form that interests me...when i did shotokan i learnt it before bassi, in tang soo do after bassi...and some naihanchi i've heard are learnt for some at black belt...

    our dojo does them all after bassi (brown belt form for us)...so they are the brown and white, and red belt forms (least the 3 i know are)...

    but out of the naihanchi forms i think that has always been my favouate...

    i never noticed it until i got to brown and white but alot of clubs have very different versions of all forms and placement in there they are in terms of grades and what stag you learn them :s

    how long have you been practicing it?
  8. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    naihanchi shodan? about two years or so, i think.
  9. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    Cool ... I've been (although bassi is my favouate) working on naihanchi sandan (sorry if spelling is wrong)... I dont know what it is but the hand movements just always seem complecated to me...its just one of them forms that i practice and practice but always have moments where i guess i think too much and get a mind block ... "ooo...whats...whats that move again"...kind of moment :S
  10. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Of the kata that I've ever tried, tekki nidan is by far the hardest to learn - memory-wise.

    It just plain will not stick in my head. Even after I've immediately done it.

    Weird kata.
  11. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Keep in mind that kata training nowadays is very different from the kata training of old. We like to say there are the "three K's of karate" (kihon, kata, kumite) but in Okinawan karate there were actually four areas of study for karate: junbi undo (preparatory exercises for flexibility, balance, etc.), hojo undo (supplementary exercises which included resistance training and endurance training), kata bunkai (disassembly of the kata techniques), and kata oyo (application of the kata techniques). This is why it was very common for many karateka to know only a handful of kata, as with that knowledge came the application of what they were training for.

    Nowadays most people merely see kata as a performance and not was it was originally intended to be, nor do many people really know what the movements of the kata are supposed to signify. Fortunately there has been a big increase in the interest of bunkai and oyo, but we've still lost so much that much of it now is just whatever the practitioner can find that works effectively.
  12. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    those horseback riding tekki katas are weird. I watched our more experienced students do them.
  13. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Supposedly all the Tekki kata are derived from Naihanchi, which according to Choki Motobu is one of the deadliest kata you can learn.
  14. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    tekki IS naihanchi. just in a big kiba-dachi. it's possible to use both versions differently though. i love working waist power with tekki due to the way the kiba-dachi can firmly anchor your hips in place.
  15. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    I'm actually going to a seminar this weekend where I'll get to learn some Tekki kata for the first time, so I'm pretty excited about that.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6unwZN0DPdU&feature=related"]‪Wado Ryu Karate Kata Naihanchi‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

    Great Naihanchi right here, and actually supplied by our very own GaryWado it looks like.
  16. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    Hmmm i didnt know that...ive never heard someone refer to them as Tekki so thank you for this useful information

    I think all the naihanchi forms are quite hard to learn...I think my biggest issue however was simply getting a good stance (horse riding stance we call it...kiba-dachi) for foundation and at first found it slightly akward, i guess in the end tho it just showed me my stance was not strong or rooted enough so it improved this alot.

    however i think the stance though i already knew and was hard to get it stronger i think the hand movements of the forms confused me alot and sometimes when i was practicing i would go from naihanchi sandan to shodan for example it happened with all of them going from one to the other by accident, for some reason i think it was just at some points during the forms we use simlar movements that...confused me lol
  17. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    tekki is the shotokan version of naihanchi. same name but in japanese instead of okinawan.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAkA5zAosC4"]‪Tekki Shodan - Shotokan Karate‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJqOeOGdm28"]‪Asai - Tekki Shodan‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
  18. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    Interesting... i know the japanese have had a great influence on karate, from the uniform to the name...lots of things (im not great with facts)...but okinawa is where karate originated from

    Its i guess a little confusing, i started with shotokan which used japenese at the dojo...moved house and started tang soo do

    however the training is very simlar to the shotokan which i find strange...forms in a slightly different order however...i guess hardest part is that now i have to use korean language instead so i get confused at points but we call them the naihanchi forms.

    The naihanchi we practice is very much like the ones in the videos with only minor differences.

    dose anyone know of links to the kata applications to the naihanchi's?

    i know a few but just want to be able to practice the form with even more meaning behind the techniques.
  19. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    the historical progression, oversimplyfying it a bit, was okinawan karate, japanese karate, korean shotokan, modified branches of korean shotokan, institutionalization into TKD, TSD, etc.

    as far as applications go, the basic ones in shodan are pretty much in plain sight (block, hit, block, hit, block, hit, with the occasional grab or shove), but i like to drill these variants of the start sequence when i can:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ5vKAWoO-U"]‪bunkai fun!‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8PtY0lzDOs"]‪bunkai 3‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vApc292wRG8&feature=related"]‪bunkai 4‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

    text explanations here: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34156368&postcount=31
  20. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    Thank you for posting these... having something too add behind my forms (applications behind the techniques) is something i generally like to have, makes the training of kata to me feel more like a completed experience

    Thank you :)

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