why jun fan gung fu?

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by salami, Jul 12, 2006.

  1. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Sigh. Ok, we're drifting off into the area of self defense. But quickly -- most fights/attackers just don't drop out of the sky. Especially (statistically) the older that you get. Quite frankly, I'm not worried about spring loaded attackers who jump out of nowhere from a bathroom stall in my local pub intent on biting off my nose for some reason. I am worried about the person that I can't talk out of a confrontation (though, honestly, that's only happened once in my life).

    As far as adrenal dumps, immediate reactions, etc. -- while I'm a believer in all of them, I'm also a firm believer in the concept of a point of domination. That even if your brain temporarily checks out at first, it comes back online pretty fast. And that, especially if you've stunned the person, then you have an active choice about what you do next (and there's a lot of literature to back me up). At that point the rules definitely come into play.

    But look, I don't think you're going to agree with me on this point. And, from my research and experiences, I know that I'm right (and I very rarely say that). So this is a dead end conversation. Let's get back to JKD.

    - Matt
     
  2. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    agreed matt.
    why jun fan,. simply becasue you learn the methods and techniques of bruce lee. you then research jun fan and others arts and add what is useful.
    so you might like the front kick of jun fan, but prefer the thai round to the jun fan, this is your jkd.weather you call it jkd or not.
     
  3. MagikMike05

    MagikMike05 New Member

    how are there rules to fighting, if you have rules and the other person doesnt your going to die. not to sound *dramatic* and talking about the uber d34dly str337s, but seriously, legal system or not its better to be alive.
     
  4. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    *Sigh*

    We're on an idological merry-go-round right now. Here's the facts (and I speak as someone whose put a good amount of time in research and learning modern self defense).

    Not every fight is to the death.

    When I say there are rules, that's because they are. And if you cripple or kill someone who took a pot shot at you -- you will discover how right I am. Do me a favor, use the search and you'll find a number of discussion here centering around news reports of people like you, who think there are no rules, overreact and kill someone in supposed self defense. You want to know where they are now? Jail.

    Now if someone decides to come at you with a weapon, everything changes (and everything changes because the rules change). But, then again, if you immediately disarm that person and then proceed to stab them multiple times, injuring or killing them -- you will discover how right I am.

    Note: I'm not suggesting that you should be a victim. Rather that you need to comply with certain rules in self defense. Especially if you are a martial artist.

    But please, again, feel free to think I'm wrong on this. Ignorance is bliss, though remember, it's also not a viable defense in a court of law.

    - Matt
     
  5. MagikMike05

    MagikMike05 New Member

    i never said that if someone cuts you off, or someone shoves you to murder them. but if someones fighting you with that kind of evil intent you should definately fight back without any rules. even if someone is trying to start with you at X bar over X bullsh*t, a little eye gouge and a groin kick wont kill them, its *dirty*, but its not like not fair. theres no rules. i didnt say kill anyone who touches you. but fight ruthlessly
     
  6. MagikMike05

    MagikMike05 New Member

    back to the topic. If Jeet Kune Do is not a *style*, then why is it under styles as a sub forum, instead of philosophy. booya. one for magik mike, 0 for the non-believers.
     
  7. archrival_keysi

    archrival_keysi Valued Member

    Like it but hear is my two pence worth

    Jeet Kune Do as bruce lee said is not a style - not my personal opinion and before i get complaints i am not disin Bruce Lee. As it was when Bruce was around it maybe wasnt a style i dont know im not old enough

    My perspective/opinion JKD is a style that is taught and it is then adapted to the user after all JKD stands for intercepting fist and there a million and one different adaptions that anyone person can do when intercepting the fist, foot, elbow, knee etc. The different ways inwhich it can be done is generally taught and every instructor has a style of teaching this making it a style.

    The other side of it is the philosophy that bruce put into it makes it a very philosophical art as well so Magik u could put this art in philosophy, i know Guru Dan Inosanto puts alot of philosophy within the art as well.

    OK no im waitin to be shot down hehe

    just my opinion and open to objection please feel free to have your say

    regards to everybody
     
  8. Martial_Science

    Martial_Science New Member

    For me, jkd is more of a style, and yet not a style. You can look at it both ways. I look at it as what I have been thought and read, it is scientific street fighting. It is a style in a way because it has its own set of techniques and methods that strive towards the truth in fighting. For example, there is a most efficient(non-telegraphic, most forceful, fastest,less energy-draining, etc.) way of throwing a straight lead, a hook, or a kick if you look at it scientifically, meaning it will work for most abled people. It is not a style, because it does not sacrifice efficiency in combat for the sake of tradition and nationality, etc. Styles perse, tend to get dragged into conforming with tradition. But any martial art that has a set of method and structure in doing things is a style; the only difference is that jkd seeks it through science, not tradition, not fad, not nationality, not the person, etc. From what I know and read of Bruce Lee, this seems to be what he is striving for. Just try and take a look at his notes. It is not mere mixing of different arts. JKD is evolution to perfection, if you study JKD as Bruce has taught in his later days, you will see that it is getting simplified to a point that some people tend to think that it is too simplistic, that they have to add diiferent punching/kicking styles that are inefficient. They do this just for the sake of adding to their repertoir of moves, even if the techniques they are adding do not conform to the structure of JKD. Evolution in jkd does not mean to add different ways of doing one thing, rather it is to hack away at the inessentials, towards the best way of doing one thing(be it the stance, a punch, a kick, etc.).
     
  9. MagikMike05

    MagikMike05 New Member

    its not a style in the sense karate is. its more a style in the sense mma is. theres a lot to work with, i think he didnt call it a style because its not like he "invented" anything in it, he cant take credit for it, its like martial arts most efficients hits volume 1. and militech fighting systems is like martial arts most efficient hits volume 2.
     
  10. Beltless

    Beltless Banned Banned

    I think Inosanto meant something else when he talked about the "essence" of styles being utilised.

    I'm sure you agree that the mix and match of techniques slapped onto a foundation identical to everyone elses (in this case Jun fan) is probably not what Bruce Lee was on about.
     
  11. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    learning the essance of an art and taking a technique is diffferent, and mixing and matching is not jkd.
    having the base art which is jun fan/jkd then absorbing techniques and idea's that fit into the principles of jkd.
    discarding what does not fit you, because of x amounts of reasons. but you have to research before you discard.
    add what is your own means your attiude. your personality
     
  12. Beltless

    Beltless Banned Banned

    I agree. But don't get me wrong when I say that the concept that Jun Fan Gung fu is a neccessary basis to learn JKD sounds more like propaganda than a street fighting philosophy.
     
  13. Fightingsprit29

    Fightingsprit29 New Member

    JEET KUNE DO.....

    The art of Jeet Kune Do is simply to simplify. Jeet Kune Do avoids the superficial, penetrates the complex, goes to the heart of the problem and pinpoints the key factors. Empty your cup that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality."

    Many claims have been made over the years with regards to the proper definition of Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do. To some it is a process of "Change"; others see it as just a form of "modified" Wing Chun. Many recognize Jeet Kune Do to be simply a mixture of many different elements from numerous fighting styles, all combined to hopefully, at a later stage, form something meaningful to the individual concerned.

    However ...

    There is but ONE definition of Jeet Kune Do (As stated by the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus) ... "Jeet Kune Do is the complete body of technical (physical, scientific) and philosophical (mental, social and spiritual) knowledge that was studied and taught by Bruce Lee during his lifetime. It is concerned solely and exclusively with Bruce Lee's personal evolution and process of self-discovery through the Martial Art, as supported by written record (personal papers and library) and oral recollections (by those students who spent time with and/or studied under him)."

    A distinction is made between this body of work (Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do), and the individual student's own personal process of self discovery through the martial art, as each student is free to use all, some or none of Bruce Lee's teachings to assist him. Jeet Kune Do accepts you as you are and is not about setting up restrictions or "Ways" of doing things - It seeks to be a source of inspiration and delight for those who possess an interest in Bruce Lee, and the martial viewpoints that he created.

    Jeet Kune Do should be considered as the "Root" that was established by Bruce Lee, and NOT the ultimate goal of any practitioner, as students are expected to modify, add, and delete all aspects of Jeet Kune Do until they develop something that is uniquely their own (You the individual become, through this process of self-discovery, your own best teacher).

    With this explanation still fresh in your mind I urge you to continue reading I hope my explanations and ideas on this wonderful art and philosophy prove to be helpful and enlightening.



    The Art Of Jeet Kune do...

    This is my small contribution and brief introduction to the art of Jeet Kune Do as I understand it. Although I wished had the opportunity to meet Sifu Bruce Lee I continue to feel indebted to him for the changes his art and Philosophy have brought in my life - changing me mentally, physically and spiritually. I am hoping that this short passage will make you want to explore all the aspects of this interesting art, and so use it as a means of self-discovery ... Developing a NEW way of life!!

    To begin with, Jeet Kune Do (abbreviated JKD from now on) means "The way of the intercepting fist" and with this combat phrase in mind, it is basically concerned with the interception of an attack, a movement or even an intention by your opponent to launch an attack. It is one of the most popular and well debated (due to each person's understanding and application of JKD being different from the next) martial arts in existence today.

    There are two schools of thought in JKD practice today ... Jun Fan/JKD practitioners, and the JKD Concepts practitioners. Jun Fan/JKD practitioners concentrate on Bruce Lee's original teachings, training and fighting methods, while the JKD Concepts practitioners use Bruce Lee's ideas and theories and explore and add techniques from many other martial arts to their training - Whatever form of JKD you choose to follow, it is really up to you to find your own truth in the art of Jeet Kune DO !!!

    Well, you might ask ....
    What are the main theories, principles and techniques involved ? What is the structure of this method ? What training methods are used ? How can you get involved in the learning process ? .... I will cover that in a little more detail shortly.

    Although Wing Chun, a Southern form of Chinese martial art still remains the nucleus of the JKD system, western fencing with its non-telegraphic motions, footwork as well as attack and defense theory were also incorporated. Bruce Lee also liked the way that boxers fought and so body mechanics, footwork and all the evasive tactics were taken from boxing and also incorporated into his JKD system. Bruce Lee, after researching several methods of kicking, also came up with his own unique way of kicking - very fast and very direct !! It is therefore safe to say that JKD consists primarily (although he did use elements from 26 different systems) of Wing Chun, Fencing, boxing and Bruce's own unique way of kicking.

    Learning the art of JKD is like putting together a large puzzle. Each period of Bruce Lee's life holds important pieces of the puzzle - The more you learn, the more complete your puzzle becomes. It also helps to learn as much about Wing Chun as possible so that you can better understand the roots of the system - You will find that the study of Wing Chun will really solidify your knowledge and understanding of JKD (It is after all the real foundation !!).




    There are three major areas of concentration in JKD:

    Simplicity
    Directness and,
    Non-classical attitude
    Simplicity means doing only what is necessary to complete a task as quickly and efficiently as possible - This is by no means as easy as it sounds and requires a lot of thought and practice through continual drilling of all the basics.

    Directness means to follow the shortest and safest possible route to an opponent (normally a straight line) with non-telegraphic motions and doing as much damage as possible. The principle of directness in JKD can be found in the individual's ability to use his longest weapon (usually his lead hand or leg) against the nearest target on his opponent's body.

    Non-classical means that all the techniques are delivered in a practical manner, unlike the majority of "fancy" techniques that are used and taught in traditional martial arts.

    The first thing that must be considered is the fighting stance (Bai-jong), or the on -guard stance which Bruce Lee believed must have your power side forward - In this position your most powerful weapons are closest to your target. This stance is highly mobile with good offensive and defensive capabilities ... Plus much much more!!
    Mobility, more than anything else is highly stressed in JKD, as combat is a matter of movements ... Footwork is light, quick and economical. Good footwork is essential to close (bridge) the gap to your opponent and attack powerfully, or evade and counter an opponent's attack. The JKD fighter will use linear, lateral, angular and circular footwork patterns, so as to put himself in the best possible range.

    There are three fighting ranges emphasized in JKD:

    Long range
    Medium range and,
    Close range
    Each of these three ranges must be practiced. The fighter must understand the tools applied in each range and how to use them effectively. Long range is known as the fighting measure, and is the most favorable position to maintain when you are not attacking. In this long range you are basically very "safe" and it is from here that you can test your opponent's reactions without being in too much danger of being hit. You can test your opponent's reactions by using feinting or probing attacks which appear to be real!!

    Kicks, punches, trapping and grappling movements can all be used in the medium range. As a general rule, by the time your opponent is moving into the medium range you should have already intercepted him and countered his offense with an attack of your own.

    Once we get into the close range, head butts, elbows and knees can now be used. This is generally where close quarter grappling occurs (chokes, strangles etc.) and is a very deadly range due to the serious nature of the natural body weapons that can be employed.

    Physical blocking of an incoming blow is only used as a last resort by the JKD practitioner ... instead he uses the four corner parry which redirects the incoming force. The best defense in JKD is to attack!! The next preferred method of defense is the simultaneous attack and defense whereby you parry the opponent's attack while delivering (at the same time) an attack of your own to the open line. An even more effective form of defense is to fire a fast powerful attack of your own into the same line as the incoming attack, thereby deflecting the oncoming attack and landing successfully on your target - This form of interception is called the stop-hit; when using the foot for interception it is called a stop-kick. When you have honed your interception skills, damage is done immediately to the attacker, both mentally and physically.

    The most important factor in JKD training is sensitivity training. Every offensive and defensive movement will have a certain type of energy and energy flow. Sensitivity drills that are used in JKD are referred to as Chi Sao or "Sticking hands" and use of this drill will enable the student to "sense" the opponent's energy quickly and subsequently trap and counter him immediately. Chi Gerk or "Sticking legs" develops the sensitivity in the legs for sweeps, deflections and counter kicks practitioners.

    Another area of vital importance in JKD is Bruce Lee's five ways of attacking. Bruce Lee realized that there are essentially only five ways that you can attack an opponent and that every empty hand attack ever conceived will fall into one of these five categories.

    One of the most useful pieces of equipment for the JKD practitioner is the Mook Jong or the wooden dummy (Refer to the last picture in my photo album) from the Wing Chun system of Chinese Kung Fu - This piece of equipment allows you to train alone when no partners are available. The wooden dummy consists of a head, trunk, two upper arms, a lower arm and a lower (sometimes metal) extension that represents the lead leg of an opponent ... All the offensive and defensive moves can be performed on the dummy. Striking the dummy and performing your defensive moves on it also conditions the arms and the legs for impact - This was one of Bruce Lee's favorite pieces of training equipment !!

    As you can see Jeet Kune Do is a very well rounded and balanced martial art which has something special to offer everyone from a mental, physical and spiritual point of view. It is, and will become - If you let it ... "A NEW WAY OF LIFE".

    Jeet Kune Do Fitness

    Intense physical training is a must in JKD or any other external Martial Art for that matter!! Please excuse the brutality in what I am about to say, but the last thing that you want to happen to you is to lose your life due to not being prepared or not in a good enough shape to carry through with a confrontation.

    Bruce Lee emphasized fitness over and over again with all his students - Cardiovascular, flexibility and strength training. Cardiovascular conditioning can be accomplished through running, cycling, rope skipping, running stairs, rowing, swimming, shadowboxing and/or footwork mobility drills to name but a few ...To just give you an idea of Bruce Lee's physical prowess, he would run four miles a day in 24 to 25 minutes, thereafter he would ride his stationary exercycle full speed - 35 to 40 miles per hour continuously for 45 minutes to an hour!!

    Flexibility can be maintained by implementing a serious stretching routine of at least two twenty minute sessions per day.

    Strength training can be accomplished through the use of isometrics, static contraction exercises, free weights, weight machines etc.

    An important element that all JKD practitioners must experience is lots of good, hard sparring with protective equipment - This brings all the fitness aspects together, as well as conditioning your body for impact, developing self-confidence, mobility, timing, power, reflexes, range awareness and the endurance necessary to succeed in an all out confrontation.

    anyway i hope this was useful info
     
  14. bobguedel4

    bobguedel4 New Member

    re

    I think the real issue is this: do you want to use bruce Lee as a guide or a model? Anyone from any art or sport can use jkd principles. But if you want to recreate Bruce's attributes, you need to do wing chun and jun fan.
     
  15. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    i don't think the issue here is using bruce lee as a guide, but do you need jun fan, which the answer is yes.
    also you can't recreate his attributes, you have to train your own, doing jkd does not mean trying to become bruce lee.
    don't really think you need wing chun,tho i did and for me,it really help my jun fan stuff, but then the kali helped the wing chun
     
  16. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Actually, I'd appreciate an explanation of 'why jun fan'. The idea of having a structured base is just good common sense- but why that of jun fan in particular?
     

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