why jun fan gung fu?

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by salami, Jul 12, 2006.

  1. MagikMike05

    MagikMike05 New Member

    Why do you think Dan Inosanto is the know all jeet kune do person? Because dan inosanto always refers to himself that way? Dan Inosanto was not Bruce lee's training dummy, he had like 12 training dummy's. i cant believe you think dan inosanto is the "man man in jkd". seriously thats outrageous. i hate dan inosanto for misinforming people like you. Dan Inosanto trained dan inosanto's students. Theres no correlation to Jerry Poteets line of instructors and Dan Inosanto. And yes I've been taking JKD from one of Poteets students. Jerry Poteet was trained by bruce lee, not dan inosanto, you act like theres only one school that was in california. and dan inosanto himself carried bruce lee's legacy, bruce lee taught plenty of people. your telling me to read about it, why dont you buy some bruce lee books, and take some jeet kune do from someone other then dan inosanto, and you'll see it a lot differently.
     
  2. jeff5

    jeff5 Valued Member

    I'm curious as to when and where Sifu Inosanto referred to himself as the only, or know it all, authority on JKD? I've never seen or heard of him doing that. In any interview I've read or seen form him, and in his seminars I've been to, he's never put down other JKD instructors and has always been very humble and giving. Not sure what expsore you've had to Sifu Inosanto that's given you such a bad view of him. I just have never seen it.

    I do agree with one thing though, that one should study with instructors from different original Bruce Lee students. (or the students themselves. Poteet, Wong, Glover, Golden, Bremer all come to mind, but there are more for sure)
     
  3. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Mike,

    Based on your harsh words and overall sense of superiority, I unfortunately knew you were a Poteet student. It's unfortunate that students of Mr Poteet seem to spend so much time deriding what Dan Inasanto has accompished as opposed to focusing on making thier own accomplishments to JKD. In fact, sadly, it's rare (I can think of only one case) that I've met a Poteet line student, either online or in person, who doesn't take every chance to not only complain about Mr Inasanto's success but also state that they are the ones with the true JKD.

    Sadly, as in this conversation, it always comes across as the most sour of grapes. I hope that this is not a reflection on Mr Proteet himself. I have to say, I haven't heard many students from the other downlines go on these style of rants.

    What it definitely does is ignore the rather large accomplishments of Mr Inasanto and his students, who have far more to advance many martial arts, especially JKD, than work to tear down other martial artists.

    - Matt
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2006
  4. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    wrong bruce lee had students and tho dan was one, he was the guy who bruce practised his research on.Like matt said dan inosanto has never said that he is this and that, its just plainfully obvious.
    jerry yes was trained by bruce lee, but he was in dan's classes.
    you think that i only look or train in the inosanto lineage thats wrong. i think jerry poteet has so much to give. but dan was the one who gave sifu poteet his instructorship.i would buy a jkd book, but there is none out there that i have not got or read.
    i would like to state that i will be training with sifu poteet in september
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2006
  5. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    Mike-comments interspersed...

     
  6. Angelus

    Angelus Waiting for summer :D

    whatever happend to Taky Kimura...
     
  7. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    callsignfuzzy, mike05 attacks dan inosanto because he is blind to it.
    i agree with your earlier comments on terri tom, well researched, but wrote obvious lies.
    when people attack dan, it makes me take and step back and scratch my head in wonder.

    taky still teaches in seattle. teaching what lee taught him. tho he and his son have been to dan recently to train in jkd. hmm they went to dan, says alot really.

    taky and his son are now spreading their art
     
  8. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Great rebuttals. I just wanted to be clear on one thing. I'm not attacking Mr Poteet's skills. Or those of Kimura, Wong, Davis, or any of the others. As Tel said, the best thing to do is study under multiple lines.

    I do think it is unfortunate that in personal encounters, many students have opted to spend thier time attacking certain instructors rather than sharing what their approach is.

    Excellent response Callsignfuzzy. Good stuff in there.

    - Matt
     
  9. LS

    LS Full Metal Jacket.

    Keep this in mind - there was no separation of jun fan gung fu and jKD. Jun fan has always stood for the earlier teachings, and JKD for the later teachings. I remember Tim Tackett saying that it was called JKD in the backyard days.
     
  10. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    Thank you, sir. Just hoping to not sound too much like a nutjob! :D

    Mike-Look, bro, I'm not trying to hassle you or anything, but as I understand it, you've spent a total of three years in two martial arts. It also seems to me that you haven't spent much time trying to understand how other arts work, and simply dismiss them as, "we don't do that, so it must not be good". I'm sure Jun Fan is a great system, and I wish I could formally take it myself, but it doesn't have a monopoly on effective technique or strategy. There's always more out there to learn. Dismissing something without exploring it in-depth is making a descission based not on knowledge, but on ignorance. Here's what I've learned after roughly two decades in martial arts: there are differences, and often those differences are important, but there are many more similarities between the arts. If a technique is good, you'll find it nearly everywhere (rear straight punch, hip throw, etc). Principles can be universal, too; the centerline theory is just as important to freestyle wrestling, Japanese fencing, and Wing Chun, even if they don't all call it the same thing. Some of us who've studied different arts recognize the similarities, and when someone makes an erroneous remark, like karate not being direct, we're going to feel the need to speak from our more broad experience. I think you'd find some of the same things yourself if you'd care to do some independent research. The appearence, at this point, is that you're simply parroting what someone else is saying. At the very least, if you looked in-depth at some other arts, you might find more accurate fodder for your arguments, which at this point aren't nearly as sound as they could be. I'm just asking you to consider that your views may be incomplete. No disrespect is intended, OK?
     
  11. Chi Man

    Chi Man New Member

    wooden dummy made for punching bags

    Hello everyone. Im new here. Just wanted to know if any of you heard of some attatchments for your heavey bag to assimilate a wooden dummy? When replying on this forum could you also please send to
    yhntn68@yahoo.com
    Thanks
     
  12. jaymdubbs

    jaymdubbs Valued Member

    go to www.goldentiger.com

    and go to dummys. there is a wing chun attachable to a heavy bag or wave master.
     
  13. Angelus

    Angelus Waiting for summer :D

    well he and dan are enimies or anything ... they arent feuding for followers of JKD... Dan has added alot to jun fan in his version...mostly FMA's
    but didnt Bruce make it very public that Taky was his right-hand man?
     
  14. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    No, no, no and well, no.

    To start in the middle, I've never gotten the impression that Inosanto has ever feuded for followers. I've never heard or read him make a publicly disparaging comment about any other JKD instructor or line. I've known people from the academy that attest to the fact that he doesn't do it in classes either. From my experience he's too busy learning and teaching to find time for feuding. Not saying he's prefect mind you. Rather he seem's pretty "I do what I do and they do what they do."

    Also, when last I checked Taky never has had anything bad to say about Dan -- or at least not publicly. Like Tel mentioned Taky's son went to Inosanto to get certified in JKD.

    As far as FMA's role in JKD -- I remind everyone that Dan has publicly stated that it was Bruce who asked him to go out and learn the FMA and bring what he was learning back to Bruce. Prior to meeting Lee, Inasanto was a Kenpo man with little interest in the FMAs. And as others have said, very little FMA has crept into Inasanto's instruction of Jun Fan. I know from personal experience that in seminars he teaches the two and entirely separate beasts.

    Finally as far as Taky being Bruce's right hand man -- there is no question that the two were close friends. And Taky played a key role in the Seattle development of Bruce's fighting style. And he is without a doubt the most advanced person who trained under Bruce in the original form of Jun Fan Kung Fu.

    But, and there is no way not to be blunt about this, the two people who had the most experience with what Jun Fan/JKD had become by the time of Lee's death were Jimmie Lee and Dan Inasanto. There were others training with Lee during the California years, but these two individuals were Lee's closes sounding boards and punching dummies. The other JKD players were definitely learning under Lee -- but to claim anything other than the above is quite frankly ignoring a heck of a lot of history.

    And while Taky was Lee's right hand man in Seattle, Inasanto was it in California. Perhaps that's best reflected in the fact that both men were choosen to be Lee's Pallbearers. Tragically, Inasanto also was one of Brandon's Pallbearers as well.

    In fact, as an aside, I have to wonder, if Brandon hadn't died so tragically young, whether or not the schism between the camps would be anywhere near as wide today.

    - Matt
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2006
  15. jeff5

    jeff5 Valued Member

    Guro Dan teachs Jun Fan on its own without any FMAs added in as well.
     
  16. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    Interesting. Never thought about it, but then I've never heard about how deeply Brandon Lee was involved in JKD. What, do you think, would be the reason that his being alive would have kept things together? What effect do you think he would have had?
     
  17. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    According to interviews with Dan's daughter Diana, Brandon was working with him on JKD. She seemed to intone that Dan had hopes Brandon might patch some things up.

    Here's the quote (the context is a recounting of the events following news of Brandon's death).

    "I eventually got on the phone with my father and we both started crying. We couldn’t talk. My father was upset because he was the pallbearer for both Bruce’s and Brandon’s funeral. At the time my father was grooming Brandon to take over and better understand the JKD community. "

    (source - http://www.ronbalicki.com/article_growing_up_bruce.htm -- amoung other sites)

    - Matt
     
  18. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    dan said in 1990, brandon was looking so good that, he was gonna ask him to take control of jkd.
    dan thought that it was brandon's right.
    also of note, brandon followed dan's thoughts on jkd. at that time,brandon was taking lessons in thai boxing,kali well, all the lessons at dan's academy
     
  19. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    In an interview before his death, Brandon was a reflection of Dan's conceptuality.
     
  20. someotherguy

    someotherguy Valued Member

    well jun fan is basically Bruce Lee's conglomerate of his wing chun experience (he never finished the system), boxing, and a few other bits and pieces which he tried to tailor to suit his own body. How can people say Bruce Lee "changed" wing chun when he never even fully understood it or finished the process? Bruce Lee took his own path, looking to fill the gaps, to reach similar ends. The "wing chun" crowd largely use Bruce Lee for commercial reasons...as do most of the people in jkd.

    exactly. all these babies want to be bruce lee without going through the process

    boxing and fencing are sports and have rules. Wing Chun does not have rules...but it does go through the structured process before you become free

    I'll just add that this "jack-of-all-trades" approach doesn't seem to make sense (or blending - "oh look, now I move into wing chun range") to me and I can't believe that it will result in an understanding of all the systems...and so I am skeptical of claims like the trapping in karate is "at least as effective in the context of the system as WC trapping is in the context of Wing Chun".

    For example, I watched the link to the Inosanto video (which is also in the Bruce Lee boxset) and his demonstration of WC trapping and "sticky hands" is poor.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006

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