i don't get it why jun fan gung fu is supposed to help students in the jkd process, i understand the merit of investigating and blending various arts like muay thai, kali and silat etc, but i do not understand AT ALL how an artificial system like jun fan gung fu could help someone grasp the jkd concepts, in fact if anything it seems counterproductive
its the base art to jkd. you understand the jkd principles. then you use the techniques of the jan fan to apply them. from there you research other arts and use the parts that work for you, so you might only use 20 per cent of the jun fan. dan inosanto says that the jun fan is the base of jkd
Hmm... This is always a hotly discussed topic. Here's Dan's comments: "I study Aikido, I study jiu-jitsu, I study Karate, I study Tae Kwon Do. I'll put it together and call it Jeet Kune Do. Is it Jeet Kune Do? It's Jeet Kune Do for them. BUT IT IS NOT THE JEET KUNE DO OF BRUCE LEE. The Jeet Kune Do of Bruce Lee has the Jun Fan Gung Fu material in the beginning and then from there they are supposed to grow and expand, that is Jeet Kune Do. And it is different for every individual. So I would say, if you did that; put Karate and Aikido and Tae Kwon Do and maybe wrestling, that could be your Jeet Kune Do, that's correct. But it is not the JKD as devised or created by Bruce Lee. Because when you see he had the Jun Fan which he thought were the basics, important, and then expand and find your own Jeet Kune Do." - Guro Dan Inosanto
No. Typically the greatest musicians start with a structured approach, internalize the rules, and then break them. Likewise Lee (to one degree or another) internalized Wing Chun, Fencing, and Boxing and then broke the rules. Thus each branch of JKD starts with fundimentals and then allows the practioner to grow and develop their own practice. But at the end of the day, if you're going to be a fighter you need to learn fundimental movement and punching. And there needs to be structure to that. Now if you are doing JKD concepts, then you'll learn it from a Jun Fan perspective. If you're doing Functional JKD, then you'll learn it from a kickboxing/mma perspective. If you're doing Functional JKD then you're using Matt Thornton's JKD concepts as a foundation for your own interpretation. If you're using Jun Fan, then you're using Bruce's (and Dan's) interpretation as a foundation. Make sense? Until you have a solid foundation in something, it's impossible to persue your own JKD -- just like you can't write a (good) novel unless you've mastered your langauage of choice. - Matt
Theoretically yes. However, if you want to understand JKD then you have to follow the founders roots. Bruce went from Wing Chun to weights and conditioning to Boxing to kickboxing and was allegedly looking at grappling when he died. This is the simplified form. Jun Fan was developed to counter the popular arts of the time ie Karate and TKD (has anything changed there?). Since 1973 martial arts has transformed. You could look at TV as a similar example. In 1973, in the UK, we had 3 channels and mostly black & white tv. Now we have thousands of channels, HD, wide screen and plasma tv's. Martial arts has evolved as much. Bruce's philosophy largely holds up in 2006. His art has limitations, but doesn't all arts? Most martial arts are theoretical - if they do this, I'll do that etc. Either that or they are confined to sport - no matter hard core you go. Which leaves you with very little that works. Therefore, to stay in the arts you must study and understand. The base art of Jun Fan is included in the curriculum because it is the 'arts' foundation. JKD isn't JKD if you don't have Bruce's art or philosophy as part of what you practice. If you don't it's fine, but it's called 'crosstraining'. Andy
in general you're probably right, but this is not the case for people who actually fight with their arts and adjust accordingly. pekiti tirsia in the PI thaught to police or military could be an example(?) still, when you read the tao, you would think cross training is far more jkd than jun fan
The Tao was written after Bruces death based on his notes but interpeted someone other than Bruce. Also, if you can not follow the foundation as set forth by ALL the JKD seniors then WHY are you worried about being able to call you art JKD?? Don't focus on the name, focus on yourself.
It's simple. Jun Fan was what Bruce had developed before he made a few modifications and renamed it JKD. I don't think it matters whether if you call your MMA JKD because, unless you train with someone in very close lineage, people will have some idea of what you are talking about. It's just like everything else that real JKD attempts to convey, that it's a reference point. It's something that people can share and talk about and learn from, with, together... that's a good thing, I think, and certainly not something to bang your head against the wall about.
Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do is what bruce lee taught his students, henceforth it IS jeet kune do. Jeet Kune Do concepts is the idea that you have your own jeet kune do. the two are very different, wing chun, fencing, and boxing, is jun fan jeet kune do. thats it. bruce lee's jeet kune do, is the only jeet kune do worth learning. jeet kune do thats not wing chun, fencing, and boxing, with its own emphasis, and modifications, is just martial arts mixed together. you cant mix tae kwon do, and muay thai, and judo. because they dont have the same philosophies of economy of motion, and simplistic and directness, and fierce self defense, with eye gouging and groin kicks. there just not jeet kune do. if you read the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, it'll help a lot.
sorry but thats not true. yeah there is bruce lee's jun fan jkd, yeah its worth learning, i would say important to learn as it is the the base art.but its not the only one. what about yours??. this is the bottom line in jkd for me
i think the only reason you need to learn Jun Fan (other than if you like training it) is if you want to assosiate what you do with Bruce Lee. But i guess thats what dan is saying in his quote. if you dont care do whatever you want... Why does it have to be called jkd? i personaly prefer "Matt Kwon Do!" matt
I will give you all my understanding from my own research and experience with JKD. Jun Fan Gung Fu is usually used to refer to what he taught in Seattle and Oakland. Jeet Kune Do is usually referred to what was taught in the LA Chinatown school until it was closed in 1970, and what Dan Inosanto taught to his backyard students from then until Bruce Lee's death. You cannot practice Jeet Kune Do/Jun Fan without having a good, working knowledge, of what Bruce Lee actually taught. Whether you learn from someone who's lineage is from Seattle, Oakland, LA, or all three. That's not to say you should be bound by it, or limited by it, but if you want to say "I do JKD", you need to find a qualified instructor and study like anything else. Sifu Inosanto teaches Jun Fan Gung Fu at his academy, and at seminars, to the general public. I believe he doesn't teach ALL of the Jun Fan/JKD curriculum, he reserves the more advanced stuff (although I can't say what he reserves or what he teaches to the advanced guys as I'm not privy to it, maybe someone else can) for a smaller group of advanced students at his school. The reason for this is that he agreed not to teach JKD to the general public, but he did give some of his students permission to do so. (Tim Tackett and Larry Hartsell for example from the original back yard group)
If your learning Kali/Silat, you're not learning JKD. If your learning Wing Chun, your not learning JKD. If your learning JunFan/JKD, even if your learning/practicing other arts with it, you can say to a degree, I'm learning JKD. The whole concepts thing came about as Guro Dan teaches a lot of different arts at his academy, and in his mixed martial arts class. (as its called now, was called phase class and/or Inosanto Blend at one time I believe) What he's done, is used the concepts from JKD, and applied them to other arts like Jun Fan/JKD, Kali, Silat, Muay Thai, Savate, Shoot Wrestling, BJJ etc., in order to blend them together and teach them as an effective means of self defense. Its awesome stuff, and the guy is a brilliant martial artist and true modern day Master in my opinion. But Guro Dan wouldn't call his mixed martial arts class JKD. Let me give some scenarios: A. Instructor has blended Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai, and Escrima into an effective form of self defense. He teaches it to people. Its good, its NOT JKD. B. Instructor has a good working knowledge of Jun Fan/JKD, but he teaches it mixed in with other arts like Kali, Silat, BJJ, etc. Very effective art, has some JKD in it, but its not JKD. You could call it blend, you could say it incorporates a lot of JKD, but you cannot accurately say its ONLY JunFan/JKD. C. Instructor teaches the Jun Fan/JKD curriculum. What he's teaching is JKD. None of those routes is right, or wrong. Who am I to say if someone else's path is not correct? The route that I CHOOSE, is to have Jun Fan/JKD as my base, and learn other arts as well while still knowing what in my blend is JKD, what isn't, and the knowledge to discern the two. I take what I want/need/think is useful from the other arts and try to use the tenants and concepts from JKD to make my selection. (and my own personal experience) I personally don't believe that I should be limited by JUST what Bruce taught, but that's ME. From everything I've read, I also don't think he'd agree with anyone rigidly adhering to what he taught and nothing else either. What he wouldn't agree with, and I wouldn't either, is adding arts to your own repetoire willy nilly without understanding JKD and the fundemental lessons and concepts behind it.
i don't want to associate with him at all, but i always considered JKD concepts something like the art of war and never quite got what the hell jun fan gung fu has to do with anything bottom line: jun fan gung fu is for bruce lee or chinese ma fan boys?
