Why is Western Boxing not considered to be a "True" Martial Art?

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by B.Y.O.B., Sep 24, 2006.

  1. bodypro8

    bodypro8 New Member

    I want to reach people if I can. It is a privilege that is difficult to articulate. I didn't really notice that this thread is nine years old. I started dropping acid in 1969. I was 13. 35 years later I washed up on shore and I've been clean for 11.5 years now. I spent nine years in Vegas. I had a lot of friends in the business. In boxing. Still do.
    Most of them came out of it with not much more than their memories. I've got many boxing stories. And most of them are not about me at all. For the most part, I like and admire boxers as people. One thing about boxers is that they have a nuanced sense of irony. I figure that comes from taking a public beating in front of friends and strangers. You really just never know. I mean there are some guys that are fed to a fighter. To boost his record or to build him up after a bad loss. Guys get moved in their first half dozen fights. The whole business is an art a complex -- the mechanizations of the sport. I know one fighter, Manny Sobral, he looked around the gym as a kid and he realized what happens when boxing is over. So he used being on the Olympic team to get a scholarship and he got a BA and eventually he got an MA. He's the principal at a school for delinquent children now and he promotes amateur and pro cards at the River Rock Casino. He came up on me. I sparred with him a lot. He wasn't slick, but he was a very hard worker. You land two he lands three, you land three he lands four. He was frustrating to deal with. I want to say, what's nine fights? But I never saw anybody over the age of 21/22 that did even what I did. It was way harder than I thought.
     
  2. bodypro8

    bodypro8 New Member

  3. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Ja, those confounded daffy duck stamps...have a mind of their own, don't they?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
  4. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    At the very least i never got into phish, that was a bridge too far.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
  5. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    ?? I'd meant blotter - in reference to
    You're not meaning the ...ahem...band called phish, are you?

    Now, that would be too much - for certain.
     
  6. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    I know, and i was, their fans have certain...reputation, and i although being subject to said reputation for a spell, never fell as far as thinking they were anything other that drivel during my voyage, although i did once have to negotiate with a small purple man not to cut my toe nails with garden shears...it was a time of deep introspection.
     
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    In response to the (now very old) original question, boxing is more of a martial art than many (most?) of those claiming to be "martial arts". Boxing is probably the most Spartan of all combat sports and its methods reflect its essence: simple, unassuming and extremely effective. I'm not a great fan of sport boxing, but the training itself is fantastic for fitness and self-defence.
     
  8. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    The fact that there is no kicks, nunchucks or bo staffs means that it is not a martial art.
     
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    You left out Monks, Pajamas, Breaking Attacking Boards, No Touch KOs, Key (Ki), MMA, Dim Mak, ........:p
     
  10. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    MOD NOTE

    Belltoller, qazaqwe, can both of you stick that image inside a spoiler tag please. Random flashing image in the middle of a thread may present problems for some people.
     
  11. idols11

    idols11 Valued Member

    To answer the OP, I would imagine it's because boxing is both western and a sport. And you don't wear a uniform.

    However I do consider boxing a real martial art in reality.
     
  12. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    heh-heh-heh-heh... [​IMG]
     
  13. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    No problem. That thing is about to drive me loony already.
     
  14. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    I'm assuming that people who think Boxing isn't a martial art think Kickboxing isn't a martial art either?

    I suppose by some definition you could call them martial sports, or combat sports. Still, they are martial arts at the end of the day no matter which way you butter them up.
     
  15. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    How is this still a thing, saying that XYZ isn't a martial art? One of the first uses of the term "martial art" in the English language refers to rapier fencing... in 1639. Maybe only rapier fencing is a martial art?
     
  16. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    That really sums it up. Its a Western (White, suburban) cultural thing (the unspoken idea that boxing not an MA) propagated largely by MA films from Asia, TKD schools at nearly every one of the seemingly endless strip malls here in the States - which is also in the process of leaving a cultural impression that Martial Arts are for kids - cause that's all I see in the strip mall dojos anymore - kids, almost exclusively so.

    Boxing - when one walks into a real ( as opposed to fitness boxing ) boxing gym - what does it remind you of ? Three year olds giggling with delight as they twirl their bostaffs around as their suburban mums yap nonstop at each other or does it remind you of ... midnight basketball at the local, inner-city police precinct?

    Exactly.

    Boxing has none of the cultural trappings of Pyjamary associated with it.

    Even on this forum - I detect, ever so slightly, tinges of ... snobbery ? ... lack of interest ? ... when it comes to how seasoned MA practitioners, instructors view boxing - and this often from those whom I know to be skilled themselves in the science of boxing - interestingly enough.

    Maybe a false impression on my part?

    Perhaps, something to do with the fact that the Boxing forum gets all of two visits a month whilst a "sound of Qi" or similarly veined thread will generate 50 goddamn pages of "how-many-angels-can-fit-on-the-head-of-a-pin"-type analysis the first day ?

    Perhaps.
     
  17. Simon

    Simon Bulldog Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Something I've been considering lately is "do you have boxing in your art, or just punching"?

    I met many who think they have boxing, when in fact they don't. They have punching and there is a difference.

    That difference isn't in the hands.

    There is nothing wrong with their punching. That is until they call it boxing.
     
  18. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    Well thats the thing. There is an awfull lot of artistry and craft that goes in the power generation, body mechanics and spacial awareness within boxing. Its just that the general public dont spot these underlying aspects because they are too subtle. I will give two examples.

    1) Ringcraft....such as moving into open space. This is one of my biggest bugbears at the moment but its so fundamental to boxing and I suspect in self defence I am suprised I dont see it covered more often. Your opponent is trying to back you up in a corner or to the ropes while delivering jabs. At a certain point you are going to have to keep him busy choose the'sweet' moment where you must move into the larger space if you dont want to be cornered up. Im still suprised how many times when under pressure I still step into the tighter spot with a mental "oh for f#%* sake" what are you doing?!. This isnt something that is intuitive. It has to be practiced and taught.

    2) I tried to give kickboxing a go recently I really did, but just didnt like it. However in the few practice sessions I did have I definetly noticed that Kickboxers have, for the lack of a better expression, a different structure to them, both when throwing their punches and when padholding. So yeah, boxing definetly has a different style and mechanics which set it apart I think. Its not just punching!

    To answer the original question, well first of all its hard to define what is a martial art. Art as in 'articulation', a number of elements that come toghether to produce a particular style. I think eastern arts have a lot of spirituality in them that lend an extra stylistic element that is often absent from western martial arts, and so the public erroneosly give greater weight to this, while boxing gyms that often give life purpose and self control to young men apparently are just dens of iniquity, because you know no-one speaks in an educated accent and someone is throwing up in a bucket, while the truth is that they have a wisdom and wit of their own.

    Boxing is I would contend is primarily I would by its rule limitations is a 'combat sport', but I believe develops very usefull (if admitedly limited) martial skill sets which in some instances I think are superior to other more traditional martial arts.

    At least thats my two pence worth.
     
  19. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Nicely put!
     

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