Why is there not more sanda in mma?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by crazydanban, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Cheers! So what you're saying is that it was a rule set that defined the style?
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Its not that but it is a friendly exchange


    https://youtu.be/F75huga-Zz4
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    beat me to it!

    Heres a wierd TV spot thing with Luta Livre vs taichi

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Mlao2iHo0"]Tai Chi Vs Luta Livre - YouTube[/ame]

    and catchascatchcan vs a secret asian art -

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5b1fjsIEIk"]World Of Sport - Big Daddy vs Kendo Nagasaki - YouTube[/ame]

    :)
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    There is a judo vs taichi match somehwere...
     
  5. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Sort of , it started out with the military looking for something that actually worked, then became a civilian competition format which people trained for and developed from there
     
  6. crazydanban

    crazydanban New Member

    Taiji vs judo

    [ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlhH0PAsaZI[/ame]
     
  7. crazydanban

    crazydanban New Member

    Not sure how real this is

    If this is real the taiji is a high level pretty much what master did to me I literally felt helpless.[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oNoDu68D1rg[/ame]
     
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Well the mma guy is wearing trainers on the mat, isnt wearing training gear, and has no wrestling, so its a semi unscripted demo, no more, no less.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    The taiji bit - good balance, but essentially the guys going ultra defensive, this is tiring and stops the taiji guy attempting any attacks, so in short this is a much better demo, but still just that a demo not a match.
     
  10. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    I think there's a lot of potential with Sanda/San Shou, but considering that Sanda has a very small base in the West, and that China is still in the very slow process of making inroads into Western MMA, you're not going to see a lot of it for a bit. You had the old "Art of War" promotion out of China, but a lot of those matches seemed like set-ups between the best China had to offer, and some schmuck they picked up from outside the country. And it folded, unfortunately, before any of their big stars moved on to Western MMA. There are a few other promotions in the area, but the site Fightland has had a number of articles on the difficulty of establishing and running an MMA promotion in the country.

    Outside of China, you've got Cung Le, who entered late and was spoon-fed a lot of opponents in Strikeforce before fading away. I've seen a few crossover fighters out of France of all places, though I can't think of any names at the moment. A local kung fu school in Atlanta has a Sanda team that apparently also does some MMA fighting. I think that New York Sanda also has some MMA fighters.

    I think it comes down to the same thing as every other combat sport when crossing over to MMA: some guys (most, I'll bet) just want to stick with what they're good at. I think most guys who go into Sanda want to be Sanda fighters, not MMA fighters, and the ground element may be off-putting. Look how few of the top fighters in any other MMA 'tributary" system made a full-time crossover to MMA. In BJJ, you've only got Jacare and Werdum off the top of my head. There are a few retired Olympians like Rousey, Cejudo, Ishii, etc, but they're no longer competing in their main sports. Spong was making some noise before he got injured, and Overeem won K-1, but the kickboxing and Muay Thai top-tier pretty much stay in their own ranks. So I think there's a precedent for saying that most guys stay in their own field, and particularly with striking/stand-up sports (throws aside, Sanda is devoid of grappling).

    I'd also note that Sanda is simply a rule set. Cung Le, the most famous Sanda guy in the US and in MMA, has a Taekwondo and wrestling background that enabled him to take down strikers in Sanda and outstrike grapplers in MMA, for example. A friend of mine with a Muay Thai and Judo background could conceivably enter a Sanda fight. What I'm getting at is that, while you'll see some characteristic patterns in Sanda (side kicks and throws off of kick catches in particular), it's not a systemized "style", and it sounds to me like what you're observing is what an individual school is teaching, like a Wing Chun or T'ai Chi influence, as opposed to a broad-spectrum characteristic of Sanda as a whole.
     
  11. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    I agreed with your post brother right up to that part about "stealing". I don't think that's an honest depiction...maybe just your opinion? Which strikes did Sanshou "steal" from boxing that weren't already in at least one composite Chinese style? Boxing in terms of pugilism, developed in almost every ancient civilization including Greece, Rome, China, Siam, and so on. To the best of my knowledge it was the training programs and conditioning that was "borrowed" from modern boxing as practiced in other developed nations... being a bit more orthodox, repeatable, and standardized in its application than say many traditional programs teaching the Chinese style, which varied widely *but* still certainly in the original contexts included everything the "west" calls "boxing" and then some... and why the "west" indeed used that term to describe it locally. Boxing training has always seemed a lot more direct, approachable, and intuitive than many kung fu styles, but I would not agree that boxing techniques per se were "stolen". Hung gar for instance teaches jabs, hooks, crosses, overhands, uppercuts, and even boxing guard and defense with the "gates" concepts, the "scissor hands", the bridging concepts to clinch range, all the footwork and so forth. I can't speak for any other Chinese styles but as far as I know every possible method of hitting someone with foot or hand had plenty of time to gestate within the borders of China..."boxing" is certainly not limited to the "west" or even the modern styles we think of today as the "sweet science". Boxing was most definitely not a 20th century "discovery" of Chinese thought, it's far far older. Maybe it would be more accurate to call Sanshou a "resurgence" of the ancient sciences of Chinese pugilism? That makes a lot of sense to me especially given the needs of the military and also why the civilian populace would want to take part in it (being the best estimation of their days of "kung fu yore".).
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  12. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    It's the most well marketed because of it's adapted use in the UFC. I wouldn't say that necessarily makes it the most efficient though. For example Ronda Rousey is doing a good job of showing how effective Judo can be in the Octagon.

    Ideally it would benefit a fighter more to be well rounded. Get good at BJJ, then take up perhaps another grappling art that can compliment it. Same applies to striking, get good at Muay Thai then get good at another striking art to compliment that.

    If your art just so happens to have striking and grappling and offers a little something extra then go for it, I would study the fundamental arts for MMA first though.
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    WAR CATCH!!!!!
     
  14. LondonWingChun

    LondonWingChun New Member

    Interesting topic. At our multi-discipline Martial Arts gym we train San Da which is in contrast to many MMA gyms who seem to favour Muay Thai for their striking. Perhaps it says something about how traditional Chinese arts have come to be perceived, often inaccurately, by Western Audiences over the years. It is a shame as San Da is an extremely dynamic and effective striking style and complements Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and grappling arts perfectly.

    We have a blog article here discussing the issue of San Da and how it can benefit both MMA and traditional style fighters in the modern day.

    Link removed

    Let me know what you think!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2017
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  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I've removed the link as we don't permit links back to personal sites.

    We'd be interested in your thoughts, but they would need to be posted in full on MAP.
     
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