Why does "for health" Tai Chi exist in the first place?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by nintyplayer, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. nintyplayer

    nintyplayer Valued Member

    I apologize if this comes off as a bit of a rant.
    I spent a short time practicing Wu-style before realizing that the class was strictly "for health" with no emphasis on the combative aspect of Tai Chi Chuan. I've just begun studying Yang-style under a teacher who has a "for health" bias but also encourages pushing hands and applications practice, which is refreshing. The common idea of Tai Chi Chuan is just the "for health" aspect, and people generally don't understand the difference when they see Qigong, Tai Chi Chuan, or Yoga. In fact, the view of it being a combative martial art is lost to most, save for the martial arts enthusiasts.
    I just don't understand how Tai Chi Chuan can go from Yang Lu-chan being some sort of undefeated fighter using Tai Chi Chuan to retirement home exercise in less than 200 years. When did Tai Chi stop commonly being about how to fight and more about light exercise and spirituality? Why? Is it just this way in the West, or is it the same in China?
    And why is it acceptable for someone who can't demonstrate any use of their martial art in a fighting environment -- or even a demonstration -- to teach their martial art?
     
  2. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    A lot of people, especially older people, are more interested in improving their health than they are in learning to be a better fighter. If they find that doing Taji meets their needs and they enjoy it, then I don't see what is wrong with that. Let's stop trying to make 'health' a dirty word. Health is good.

    I only have a problem with Taiji being missold as a martial art if it is purely being done for health with no real understanding of the martial basis. But provided that the teacher is honest about what he/she is teaching, then I don't see a problem.

    -----

    To answer the question about the history of it, you need to go back to China following the establishment of the Republic. (About 1911/1912.) That's when Taiji started to be taught widely to the public, rather than privately, and new slow forms were created which were easier for people to learn who weren't studing full time. In many cases the older fast forms weren't taught any more, and there was less emphasis on the 'martial' application for people who were essentially hobbyists, or more interested in health than in fighting. Taiji bacame a hugely popular form of excercise practised by squillions of Chinese people, rather than purely a martial art that was learnt privately by a few.

    I would guess that there was a big increase in interest in Taiji in the 'west' in the sixties and seventies, when there was a lot of interest in 'eastern' stuff, along with lots of new age stuff. So you do still get that sort of 'hippyish' crowd who want to 'cultivate their chi'. Hopefully they are becoming rarer now, though.
     
  3. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Well the IMA are holistic in nature. They absolutely contain spiritual, philosophical and the "health" parts within them - as do other categories of CMA and Eastern MA. This health part would be like talking about strength and conditioning, diet etc today as it relates to modern martial arts, but using what was considered at the forefront (of knowledge of such things) culturally and historically during the times these arts were being developed.

    Tie this in to how tai chi in particular was pushed to the wider populace as an exercise to "strengthen the nation" and you find a lot of people involved in what is a holistic martial art preferring to keep the martial parts to a minimum, if not rubbing them out all together.

    (in a nutshell)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  4. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    To answer your question with a more philosophical slant; it exists because people want it to.:hat:
     
  5. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    I teach Tai Chi and do so for a variety of reasons and purposes. I also teach 'Self Defence' which is - obviously - about ... wait for it ... 'Self Defence'


    However...


    One of my sayings is:

    "You are far more likely to be mugged by the flu virus than the big ugly guy around the corner."

    The simple reality for most of the people who study martial arts is that they are NOT learning 'deadly fighting skills' to defeat hordes of Ninjas (or - for that matter - even a solitary 'Nin').

    I currently (last 2 years) train in a different Tai Chi style to the style I teach - the rest of the students in the class are ladies (some in their 70's) who live a peaceful rural lifestyle and enjoy doing Tai Chi once a week for gentle exercise and help with things like balance and health. Are they learning 'Tai Chi' the awesome martial art - NO - but you know what - it doesn't matter...

    I recently ran a Tai Chi for Self Defence seminar - teaching some of the more 'intense' martial stuff that Tai Chi has to offer... Suffice it to say that we were NOT swamped by hoards of people wanting to learn...
     
  6. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I can't remember what book I was reading but it described that when a new dynasty was formed by some invading folks (maybe Qing or Han dynasty?) the literati and teachers of the older dynasty weren't keen on sharing their family art forms with foreigners so they taught them slow versions telling them it was for health and removing most of the martial applications.

    also when it became a public past time, families felt that teaching the intricacies of timing and application required more effort than they could provide to the very large general public who had little interest in fighting.
     
  7. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    All TCMA forms can be done in 3 different ways.

    1. combat - punch out fast, pull back fast.
    2. performance - punch out fast, freeze your arm at the end of your punch before you pull it back.
    3. health - punch out slow (this may be easier for your elbow joint), pull back fast.

    In other words, you can train any MA style for "health".

    If you just repeat front kick, back reverse punch in slow speed, you will get your health benefit. When you get older, you may need to stretch more, train more single leg balance to prevent you from having posture problem, and also from falling and break your hip.

    For health, there are other training other than Taiji that can give you better result. If you started your MA training when you were young, you may still be able to do the following exercise which will give you:

    - balance,
    - flexibility,
    - endurance.

    for your old age.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2014
  8. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    Lol I couldn't do that now !
     
  9. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Looks like he's about to take off!
     
  10. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    IMO, the following drills are the best training for "health".

    - swing your leg straight up,
    - inside crescent kick,
    - outside crescent kick,
    - head down and leg up.

    If you can still do that when you are 80, you should have good health all your life.
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    There is a little more to health than being able to swing your leg.

    Nutrition, sleep, strength and flexibility spring to mind.

    Health is a lifestyle, not a series of exercises.
     
  12. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    It's a common story perpetrated over the years by those wishing to say "We have it,"they" don't." Politics and squabbles between lineages and sub-lineages. It's jive. One of Yang,Lu-chan's top 3 disciples was a Manchu.

    The all slow forms didn't appear until shortly after 1920.
    Yeah.Disciples still got the goods,and the students got less. That wasn't anything new in CMAs except in ones which formerly were mostly taught only to disciples-such as T'ai Chi.
     

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