Why do thai boxers move differently ?

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by daggers, Apr 4, 2015.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Very much this. The spectactors are their own gambling spots. So you can make bets with anyone sitting around by you and make / lose money.
    Its also to my understanding that a lot of the betting is actually made from the analysis of the clinch game.
    Some won't even call out bets until all potential positions are played out (usually in the 1st through to the 2nd round).


    Daggers, what is this project for?
     
  2. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Thanks guys pasmith came in with a great understanding of why
    It's no major project I just wanted to get a feel for how people on this site view thai boxing and I'm please to read that people are starting to understand the scoring in muaythai :)
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

  4. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Thai boxers stand and move as they do put key for the reason of scoring, if a fighter is knocked of balance or appears out of control of their equilibrium then they are scored upon regardless of wether they block it or not
    A fast reply with power shows that the boxer is still in control hence the 'who can get the last shot in' style
    To me , thai boxing is minimulistic , only using what is needed in terms if footwork movement and shots
    And for the record .. A 360 spinning downward elbow that lands clean will score no higher than a simple push kick (teep) of similar effect, all techniques score exactly the same , so elbows and clinch do not score higher than techniques used only in k1. That being said, the roundhouse and long knee are favoured above punches for the reason that they are unpadded and deemed to hurt more because of this, also it preserves thai staple techniques
     
  5. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    I was under the impression that Roundhouses above the waist (including ones that made contact with the arms), elbows and knees were scored regardless of effect, where as all other strikes were only scored if they caused the opponent to lose poise or stagger?
     
  6. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    It depends on where the fight takes place. Here in the U.S. when I took my training to be a judge, I was told to score Muay Thai techniques higher than other techniques. This helps to keep the culture.

    This is probably true in other places too, but I also heard that some places like the entertainment value and will score flashy techniques higher (as long as they are Muay Thai techniques).

    In the long run it doesn't really matter probably because knock out or knock downs will win the round. It is a must score 10 here, so the winner of the round gets 10. If no knock downs, usually it is the more aggressive fighter that shows they are in control that wins the round.

    Judging is okay, but hard to really enjoy the action... btw.
     
  7. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    All ***** score equal, depending in their effect, however.. Shots to the body sent with power may not show the sane effect as a loose limb like the head or legs, so judges use a term called assumed effect, this is to say that if a kick or knee landed strong on the body and shows no little to effect they will still score it highly
     
  8. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    But i know kicks caught on the arms if aimed at the upper body/head score, but punches in such circumstances wouldn't, so it's not really a case of assumption in all circumstances, certain techniques are scored higher than others, further more, i've seen fighters use techniques, such as the knee slap, which don't seem to cause much damage at all (particularly when thrown in volume by certain fighters "cough" yodwicha "cough"), yet seem to score really highly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I'm assuming you're trying to say "All shots score equal" ? :)
     
  10. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    And of course, it's those shiny shorts.

    Mitch
     
  11. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    This scoring conversation is confusing. Techniques either score or they don't score depending on effect. When something is scored higher, it doesn't score more points but what it means is that it doesn't have to have as much visible effect to score. A good kick or knee that connects to the body will score (including if it hits arms and legs), but a punch to the body only scores if it is a clean hit (usually does not score if it hits the arms/is blocked).

    Muay Thai techniques score higher than other techniques. What this means is that you can get penalized points for illegal techniques or get no points for them (if accidental). For legal techniques, say a TKD roundhouse kick, it will have to show more effect to score than a Muay Thai kick or a knee.

    Knock downs and knock outs score on their own, not for a technique. Since we use a must score 10 systems. Technique scores are to keep tabs but don't replace win by knock downs or knock out.

    This can be different scoring elsewhere, I only know the rules for the sanctioning body where I have judged and have heard that in some places they value entertainment more for scoring.
     
  12. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Kicks to the arms will only score if they are not blocked, ie a thai block to the upper arm is where the arm is held away from the body and complete control of balance is maintained
    A kick will score to the upper body if it hits the arms ONLY if it moves the opponent OR the arms are tucked into the body (so the arms and body are one unit)

    It's a shame that there is no consistency around the world with correct understanding of Muay Thai
    In the uk we are getting the idea now that our leading expert on judging tony Myers did his university degree on lumpini stadium scoring, he spent a great deal of time shadow judging and questioning top lumpini judges to better understand how muay thai should be scored
    He brought his findings back to the uk and now has many judges and gyms qualified in correct thai scoring (and may I add he only charges enough for these seminars to cover his costs, such is his dedication to promoting correct scoring)

    You will never find a lumpini or other too stadium judge favoring flash techniques over effect and control
     
  13. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Then how do you explain kicks and knees to the head scoring when the opponent is not staggered and maintains balance? Would this also fall under the distinction of assumed effect?
     
  14. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Yes it would, though the same would apply .. If a flick kick hit the head and showed no effect it would not score, any thai kick or knee to the head thrown with power will almost always have some visible effect ie the head being moved, however if a boxer receive a head kick and it moved the head but he still managed to return straight away and deliver a good kick to the body the score would be about even , because he is showing that it didn't effect him that much or he wouldn't be able to return the shot so well
     
  15. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    What you said sounds right to me daggers. I just didn't explain it as well, but that is what I meant. I get more caught up in the final scores for the round. Big difference between a 10-9 and a 10-8.
     
  16. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    I didn't realize such distinctions were made, granted, I've read other statements to the contrary, but from what i can tell, Tony Myers is probably the highest authoritative source in the English speaking world, so i guess therein lies the seeds of debate.
     
  17. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Daggers...


    Do you think it's a good idea copying Thailand as the fight rules are changed not because it makes for a better fight but a longer one as the bookmaker is king
    Is it something that shod be adopted?
     
  18. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    It shouldn't be adapted in my opinion
    If the game is played to attract gambling then why not make it gambling orientated outside of Thailand? It would attract bigger crowds, give people a reason to learn understand follow and back their favorite fighters giving them some modest fame and much needed money

    Plus If we change how we score it outside of Thailand how are we ever going to win big in the homeland ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  19. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    The last part is the issue. A Thai boxer needs to fight in Thailand but the changes over the years aren't necessarily good for the sport. Over here there's always another fight to watch
     
  20. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    I agree , there are many top farrang fights I'd want to watch over top Thais fighting each other, thankfully they are fighting under Thailand scoring set though
    If we had a western rules thai boxing ruleset it would be a farce, it would eventually get so distanced from homeland style it just wouldn't be Muay Thai anymore
    We can't even hold an organisation down! Each organisation would start changing the rules and scoring to keep people affiliate, it would be so much worse.

    Iv said it before ., Muay Thai isn't a heritage sport anywhere but Thailand. In order for a sport to suceed and be run properly it needs a higher authority to regulate it .. (The like the Olympic commitee Which has affiliations with judo for example (another none western heritage sport) a sport Connot be run properly by the participants themselves because there is just too many personal issues and agendas to cause disorder
     

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