Hyeongsa, You also need a lesson on reading comprehension. You asked me to name some great WKSA Masters so I named the Harmons and SJS. Then you asked me to name others so I named KJNs Kwon and Evarts. Then you wanted me to name only the US ones so I named KJNs Song and Jolly (I consider KJN Evarts as a US WKSA Master...I don't know why you don't) . I find all of them to be great people. I'm not the one who said that US WKSA MAsters are crap and that they can't "punch/fight to save their life." You did. Want proof? Face it, you bash the WKSA and their Masters and since you want to talk names....I ask again, which WKSA US Masters do you consider crap? Or are you now backsliding? Further, I don't think I have ever claimed to be able to do stuff like EK Lee or BIL...point to me where I said that. LOL. Actually, tell you what, you go first....prove that you can do stuff better than SJS since you brought up the whole notion of comparing yourself to these Masters. LOL. If you can't prove that you're better than SJS, why ask others to prove they are better than EK Lee? LOL...well, I guess in your mind, its logical. To me, its delusional. Finally, you are out of your mind and delusional if you think 1 year of KS is sufficient to know in an MMA fight if thats all you're using. At 1 year in...most people are still yellow or blue belts. If you think a KS blue belt, with its long learning-curve, can compete with a 1 year trained boxer (in an art with a much faster learning curve)...you have no idea about fighting arts.
If I were a master in the Won, and I couldn't get someone trained up to red belt level within a year because of rules, regulations, or other political BS (meaning the student gets stuck back at yellow or blue belt at the end of 12 months training), then I might consider leaving the association since it obviously hampers my ability to teach MA. Oh, BTW, getting to red belt on the *old* curriculum within a year is doable, so getting to red belt on the current curriculum should be a snap. Furthermore, most KSW schools DO offer private instruction, and if someone who wanted to compete in events such as UFC or the like, and didn't partake of any such extra training and one-on-one instruction, then they're the one who's delusional.
1) Never said i was better. i said hopefully someday, but not right now. you, however, did compare yourself and i don't think i need to go back and prove to the world you said that since we all read it, but i believe it went something along the lines of "all of us in the WKSA are just as good" or something like that which is pretty damn presumptious on your part. honestly, not worth my time since your already 5 feet under. you keep talking and you'll be 6 feet under in no time! lol 2) "i find all of them great people" oh yes, they are quite wonderful people! i completely agree. and they are skilled. HOWEVER...are they as good as the ones that left? are they as good as Byung In Lee or as legendary? lets take the Harveys: are they as legendary as Soon Tae Yang or Byung In Lee (or put name here)? their great people...but no, they aren't. now, that doesn't mean their "crap" as you stated it, but thats a simple fact. 3) yes, some 4th and 5th degrees can't fight worth a damn. i have seen some testing that can barely pull their own weight or are red faced after just two or three forms or pushups for that matter. their techniques are barely acceptable. now, am i going to name names? no, because that would put them on the spot and its disrespectful. sorry, i'm not you so your just gonna have to accept it or don't because honestly, it won't affect me either way. 4) so you have so little faith in your own art you dont' think they'd last against one of your MMA superstars, eh? thats sad that you have that little faith to begin with but even sadder that you have the audacity to sit there and try making us non-won cats look like we're the disloyal ones when the disloyal ones are sitting under the WKSA flag right now (that would be you, btw). if you can't train a student to fight and win in under a year, then you really shouldn't be a teacher at all and, i said it before which you obviously didn't listen or "lack the reading comprehension" lmao, if you have that little faith then get out. go be an MMA stylist. have fun. but don't sit there and act like your the Queen of the WKSA and then go off and be so two faced. it insults my intellegence and lowers the IQ of this entire thread. but, hey, what more should i expect?
LOL...you say I said something....point it out! Oh, not worth your time huh? Maybe because you're a liar! Legendary? LOL. HAHAHA. What does that mean? Okay, I'll play...someone like KJN Evarts (a US WKSA Master who stayed) is just "as legendary" as KJN M Nebgen (a Master who left). Keep on throwing WKSA folks under the bus! You are a coward. You didn't want to deal with percentages...rather you wanted me to name names! So I did. But when I ask you to do the same...you won't. This is not the first time either. Remember your supposed "full business plan" concerning a new KS association? LOL. I suspected it wasn't a fully vetted plan with scales, models, research, logistics; rather, it was probably a hodgepodge of random crappy thoughts of what you wanted to happen. But you insisted it was good stuff so I asked you to post it since actual business plans that are successfully executed are public. You sheeped away then too. You contradict yourself so much. You say you know 4th or 5th dahns (who usually have anywhere from 13-25 years of training) who "can't fight worth a damn"...but think someone with 1 year can? Do you know anything about training for a fight? Training for a boxing or wrestling match may be different. But modern MMA training is different. Much emphasis is on "live" training with full resistance. People bring in training partners to advance their skills levels and practice techniques suitable for them. Sparring is the heart and soul of the training. A coach may only spend 5 or 10 minutes a day teaching technique...the remaining 6-8 hours/day of training done by the fighter is done with sparring partners, on the treadmill, in PT, on the speedbag etc etc etc. 5 to 10 minutes a day translates to only about an hour per week. So...if you or Unknown can get a person to red belt and fight-ready in 12 months, using only KS while teaching them stuff only 1 hour per week...fine thats what you think. Don't give that crap about private lessons and hours above and beyond the norm. Professional fighters don't sit in didactics for hours and hours....no, they like to get in there and spar. That being said, if rank advancement and rank chasing is what you think is needed to be a good fighter...LOL. Actually, in Korea, some parents use KSW Hapkido schools as a "babysitting" tool. They train 1 hour/day for 6 days...and most reach DBN or BB by 1 year.
at the moment I think this thread would be better entitled "how to drive prospective students away from Kuk Sool" if anyone new to MA looking around deciding which MA to follow reads this, they're going to think that KS is stuffed full of vindictive idiots - and they'll take their cash elsewhere. Seriously, this is all getting beyond a joke: the fact that some of those involved are schoolmasters is making Kuk Sool leadership appear to be run by a bunch of mealy-mouthed fools Sorry ladies and chaps, but a spade is a spade is a spade. And its time for the **** to stop
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing Demdike but I would like to point out that no one in this conversation is a leader of anything. Kuk Sool Won's leader is Kuk Sa Nim and AFAIK the supposedly "generic" Kuk Sool has no apparent leader. If they are school owners they only represent themselves and any potential students should be ware of any school of any MA and get references and visit several schools before signing up. FWIW There is some meat in what is being discussed and is somewhat entertaining besides so sit back and enjoy the ride or add to the discussion. Regards
I hear what you're saying Obewan, but the problem is that anyone "outside looking in" isn't going to know the niceties of who's in / out / in charge or not and will probably take the general tenor as being representative of ALL KS - whether in or out
Obewan, That's all you got from Demdikes post, who is or isn't a leader? You are a school owner!? Read it again, maybe this time it clicks. Its obvious how your support has shifted these past month especially when it comes to VM but you have to admit that it's pretty bad how VM, unknownKJN and Hyeongsa are ripping at each other lately. Comments about that were made on the Olympic thread by at least a couple of people. Just take Demdikes post for what it's supposed to say and don't read more into it or we'll never get over this crap. OB
you'll make me out to be a liar sure, but in the mind of the delusional, everything is a lie. KJN Evarts does not have 500+ active students which is legendary still. sorry. your turn again! lol if being respectful is being a coward then, well, yes i guess i am. sorry, but i'm not a complete jack ass like you and in this case, if i have to make myself look like an idiot to save face for some of your "WKSA Brothers and Sisters" then thats what i'll do. my "full association plan" is already done and has been viewed by 5 or 6 people (important ones that are OUT of the WKSA: do you REALLY think i'm gonna put it here for the WKSA brown nosers to rip on? lol) i would love to have your input on it but fact of the matter is your WKSA and by your rules (and what Dragon Karmaput up) we shouldn't be talking anyway which i thinks lame (another reason i rip on the WKSA so much). no contraditicitons on my part: the fact is that if i had a fresh of the street student, and trained him 5 or 6 days a week and showed him the un-censored techniques, worked with him on his conditioning and what not, and trained him (just like i train my regular students but with more attention) then yes, in that time line, he would be ready for the UFC. the problem is you and the WKSA focus on "how to make a buck" instead of "how to make a fighter". sure, i'll admit there are some masters left that still focus on that but they are few and far between. the thing is ALOT of school owners give you a certain amount of days your "allowed" to come in and thats it. of COURSE their not gonna make fighters that way! but, they got their money out of it, right? lol but, i do agree with demdike. we might scare the "cash" away. lol your pro-WKSA and i'm anti-WKSA. i believe the WKSA would be a wonderful association if they went back to their roots abut people today don't want that and i guess i have to change with the times. i'm too old to do that but hell its time to stop being so stubborn i guess. i'll run my non-WON kuk sool school and you run (or whatever it is you do) and train in your WKSA and we'll both be happy.
"Vision On" BBC TV viewers gallery soundtrack.... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcCHRW8G9yY"]The Noveltones - Left Bank Two - Vision On Gallery Theme - YouTube[/ame]
This is better — for me at least! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9xpygRzYak"]Killing Me Softly With His Song - YouTube[/ame]
Blues Harp is fine for soothing acoustic renditions, Pugil, but couldn't you have chosen something else? That number is kinda lame IMO, FWIW.
I picked it as being in the same lame category as W & P's music Now go watch that video of those two kids and then tell me if that kind of training is more likely to produce kids capable of looking after themselves in this wild world of ours, rather than... Well, I'll leave it to you to add in the rest!
IT makes me sad It make me sad to see KSW (the art) so conflicted and mixed up in so much "corporate problems" KSW is a beautiful art, strong, balanced and with a very strong structure.............franchising it will most probably kill it in the long term..
People are too afraid to leave. They'll stay because they are afraid what will happen if they don't stay. What if they leave and everyone hates them? They can't stay friends with the same people anymore? Kuk Sool Won WAS a strong and beautiful art when it still WAS a art. Now it is buisness, buisness, buisness. The ART of Kuk Sool is really something else...it's the WON that needs to be done away with.
Some people are afraid of leaving home too Hyeonsa. And some leave, only to go back again at the slightest excuse. I left home at 18 and I never once considered going home again, like when my marriage was on the rocks for example. But I have witnessed many others who run home to Mummy and Daddy as soon as the going gets the slightest bit rough!
Some people are afraid to stay home and help the community they love, instead they run away thinking the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Once out on their own they regret their decision but realize that they have burned the bridges to return and must lay in the bed they made. The last two post and the obove statement is utter nonsense! Are we not MA'ist...we make decisions everyday that effect the lives of others...if this is the way the actions of those who stayed or left the organization are perceived then they shouldn't have been in the position to be instructors or masters in the first place. We need to get real people, it makes us all look like idiots to the rest of the community. People made their decision based on, I would hope, what they felt was in the best interest of their students, not because of pure emotion, and shame on you if you didn't. Regards
