?Why do Filipinos prefer foreign martial arts?

ahhha! i know this place! i know why it is called "hardcore cell"! it's a nasty nasty place!

fma_demon, i think i know what you're talking about.

 

ubusan comes from the word ubos which means to finish. it is a fight to the finish.

jailhouse/ jailhouse rock/ jailhouse 52/ mother dear's 52/ jailhouse boxing/ 52 handblocks/ gangsta locks is a fighting system developed by "colored" people. mixing different indigenous fighting styles from african ma, capoera, arnis, etc. it has proven it's test and effectivity within the u.s. penal system. it is a style not openly taught to just anyone.

boltong is tribal grappling from the northern mountain region of the philippines. here in the philippines, if there is a distinction from one art to another, you keep that distinction, lest the practitioners get offended and challenge you.

 

that seems exclusionary! you seem to imply that fma has no empty hands skills.

these men might argue.



dog borthers martial arts' pappy dog & the nasty one



pikiti tirsia e.u. head uli w., grand tuhon leo gaje, jr., with the big nasty & the beast.




the submission dungeon brothers and the big bosses of pikiti tirsia

(am not in the picture)

 

Of course FMA has empty hands skills. It's just I haven't seen the other empty hands styles in action. We've seen the Mumbakki with Dumog and the Boltong Wrestling Guy, Yaw-Yan, Sari-An. But there are also others like Panantukan, Sikaran, Pangamut, Pananjakman, etc.

 

Could it be an Kalinga art? One of my pinoy friends is a Kalinga tribal leader, I will ask him about K. MAs when I'll see him again....

Haha I know this, It also happens to me.... I have to apologize for my poor knowledge, I thought Dumog, Buno, Boltong are all words from different dialects used for grapling ...

When it comes to fmas empty hands don't forget silat, kuntaw silat, kuntaw, judo combat, bangkoy...

 

Yes it is not, but it might as well be. Let's face it, most strike techniques guaranteed to KO a grappler are illegal. Also, a fighter can choose to "tap out" of the bout by holding his hands up indicating surrender in a manner clear enough for the other guy and the referee to understand.

I'm not refuting the effectiveness of FMA's (at least arnis in particular). It's just that the way it is taught is not really fit in a sports environment. MMA is a sport and it is a great sport. In arnis concerning empty hand techniques I was taught the following:

1. Hit something and hit it hard.
2. Hit where it would really hurt.
3. Break a bone if you can.
4. If you grab something grip hard.
5. If you hrow somebody lad them hard.
6. When they fall, make sure they do not get up.

Concerning 5 and 6 I was taught that after throwing a guy, I have to practice HITTING the NECK immediately after he lands. That's not a conditioned response for a sport like MMA.

Again MMA is a sport. It would not be a sport if there were no rules or at least an understanding between the two fighters of what is allowed(otherwise it would just be plain killing).

And gryphon hall, what you have seen in the malls are not typical. I've seen matches sponsored that do not use those pathetic wobbly sticks. Padded sticks are used and somewhat thick arm and body armor with head gear much like waht you see in kendo matches.

 

i will let my brother teacher talk:

 

Great post.... it could be interesting to see grapling mixed with weapons....

I've grappled once with a dumoguero from Panay in QC... What he used looked like sport dumog...his goal was to bring me down and put me on the back, and he was able to do it easily (he was a champion in Panay after all)... on the ground he wasn't able to do much because I defended with bjj, but he showed me some dirty tricks afterwards this looked like intermediate bjj.,

 

Eb

are you guys all in the philippines? can we all meet or something?

 

scary! but i like it!

Well the more one trains the more situatins he comes across. even with out the knowledge of a particular art. there are times that you "invent" a technique only to find out its been invented before. then you get a sense of acheivement and enlightenment knowing that you figured something out.

i guess other than imporations and mingling with other arts this is one of the reasons why some arts have similar techniques.

but the scary thing i said refered to the grappling with weapons. hmm taichi y daga, jeet kune buno, or sikaran y daga (ngyaahah ) FMA is scary enough. but hey it would still be nice.

 

I am in the UK right now.... I will be in the Philippines in September but am also tempted to come for a two weeks break in May.... I'll let you know when I'll be there.
We could organize a Manila MAP meeting?

[/PHP] but the scary thing i said refered to the grappling with weapons. hmm taichi y daga, jeet kune buno, or sikaran y daga (ngyaahah ) FMA is scary enough. but hey it would still be nice.[/PHP]

There is already Arnis Sikaran (not really my thing), you could see it at the PIGSAI (Luneta Park).... and yang taichi also has daga but this is seldom seen.

 

one of my brothers (hwo i will call "gump" who is an exceptional grappler (maybe part of the top 5 in the dungeon) once said that he'd be willing to grapple against a knife.

the mumbakki, fearing that my brother gump would do this in real life, said: "ok guys, we'll give him what he wants". so the mumbakki gives the opponent a badjac and lets the grappling match proceed. needless to say, no matter how good my brother gump was at caccw and dumog, he left a huge crimson pool on the mats from the many stabs and slashes he got.

he never said such foolishness again.

 

Naku!

You mean he tried to go to the ground unarmed in order disarm an opponent yielding a real badjac and got cut in the process?
This can happen if you take an opponent down and he pulls a knive.... this is the reason I am not too fond of going down in the street even if I know I could win...

 

Some of us are in the Philippines. Yes, let's organize a meeting of MAP manila guys. Let's organize it when Krys is in Manila

 

Another thread's discussion unwittingly went around to the observation that Pinoys would rather take up Foreign Martial Arts if ever they do take Martial Arts, but also with the added twist that Pinoys take FMA for granted as well.

I am continuing the discussion here, though the pertinent post I am replying to is post # 7 of that other thread.

Nevertheless, to simplify things, I am quoting it right here:

Oh, yeah... I forgot about that.

Well, you know what they say: One man's freedom fighter is another man's bandit/tulisanes/terrorist/etc.

Man! This seems to be a national attitude. Back when I was in college, as you know, by law we all had to take ROTC. All our officers were supposedly taught Aikido to give them an edge over the ordinary hulking cadet; one instance was that our MPs (Military Police) were challenged to take down one scrawny officer; at that time, only large hulking cadets were allowed to be MPs, for obvious reasons. Anyway, these MPs charged the officer, and this guy proceeded to throw the larger guys around.

I found this funny, because while this was all happening, the clack-clack of sticks can be heard at the UP Vanguard, apparently some Lightning Arnis guys practicing. It seems that, even though the training ground for one of our Arnis organizations was just within the compound, they would rather teach our officers Aikido maybe because it seemed at that time as a better MA (this was during the height of the popularity of the book Samurai Aikijutsu). Was, or is this true? I don't know; how do we find out?

Another instance hits close to home. When we lived in Cavite, my brothers and I have been training in Escrima since we were kids, right, but we didn't learn formally, that is, we watched, we sparred, we compared techniques—that sort of thing. Then our neighbor invited his Karate instructor and his classmates to train in his fairly large backyard. I cannot describe the envy and jealousy we felt! These guys were learning "Martial Arts"! Heck! We didn't even know that the what we were doing was already Martial Arts, because it seemed more like play at that time (though we got injuries and all) and also because our mother watched.

But these guys doing their katas and kumites for that entire afternoon left us enthralled and despondent and depressed. We wanted in, but we cannot afford it. We tried imitating their katas to learn, but the annoyed instructor loudly told our neighbor that, as there were freeloaders around, maybe they should go to another training ground. At that time, were were just eleven years old.

Later, an American friend showed us what he learned in Kung fu class. Oh, how we ate up his wonderful terms and definitions! "Horse stance" "Standing Crane" "Plum blossom spear"! All we had was "Ops! Natamaan kita!" or "Aray! Ok yung ginawa mo." And so we watched Kung fu movies, made the mistake of thinking that that was the real skill once thoroughly learned, and felt even more left out than ever before.

It didn't matter that it was Escrima that we used to defend ourselves in real fights later on in life; it still didn't seem enough. So we read on Japanese sword techniques and such, because Escrima didn't seem enough. Movies like "Kamagong" reinforced the stereotype, as when this Escrimador Grandmaster was using his sticks to beat up the main antagonist, that is, until the antagonist threw away his own sticks and punched the GM down. I mean, what in tarnation!

It was only a few years ago, thanks to Dan Inosanto's printed words, that we realized that Escrima can be more than enough.

 

Ouch X_______X

 

I suppose that it is natural that when shown some techniques, a MA newbie would conclude that he/she can defend against a knife.

As to Gryphon Hall's post, it is disappointing that Aikido is taught to ROTC officers instead of Arnis. If it was taught, Arnis was taught to the cadet MP's. (However, since the exposure of Arnis by Presas during the Marcos regime, arnis was integrated in the training of soldiers and in the PE curriculum). At the risk of getting flamed I find aikido impractical compared to arnis. When I see aikido demonstrations, I always get the feeling that the uke is giving too much.

 

brother gump is hardly a newbie. yet he was so convinced of his ground skills (which he decidedly used against other grapplers with much efficiency) that he felt (as most bjj guys are wont to think) that he can take a knife to the ground.

 

Yeah. What some of us sometimes fail to remember is that even a Muhammad Ali (probably the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time) can be punched around by a guy like Norton (who never won a Championship).

 

Yup! Sinabi mo! Actually, the only real combat-effective "aikido" I've seen wasn't in demonstrations or in the movies. Interestingly, I've seen it on Pride; it didn't prevent the practicioners from getting beat up, though.

My brother once used an Aikido technique for real on a snatcher in Cubao. If an instructor was looking on, he would have said that the technique was deficient, improperly done, etc. But my brother said that there was no way he could have used the technique "properly" (in the sense as it should look like the textbook aikido technique with elbows and joints in the proper positions) and at the same time effective against the assailant.