Why all the debating?

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by g-bells, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    i say no. and i think you agree. I feel a lot of 'JKD' is judged on whether or not it reminds them of a bruce lee movie or not. I say this half jokingly of course, but half serious as well.
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    This is probably going to be my last post on the topic, so here goes:

    I'm well aware of what you're saying here. And I agree. But you still haven't set out any clear-cut and concrete standards for saying what's in line with that foundation, what fits, etc.

    And you probably can't. Nobody could. Hence all the debate.

  3. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    ok, i thought you did'nt get my point,my appologies

    The stance
    rear heel is raised
    type of footwork

    are a few , and yes some may look similar but not getting into to much detail they're different in certain aspects
  4. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I never claimed to define what JKD is or isn't, and I never will. I'm learning how to fight from a (primarily) JKD guy and a (primarily) Judo guy. Although, they have been training together for 20 years so the JKD guy knows Judo and the Judo guy knows JKD.

    If you want to know god's honest truth - I could give a crap what JKD is or isn't, or whether or not what I'm learning is JKD. I'm learning how to fight. I get to train the way I enjoy training, and I enjoy my school. That's really all that matters to me.

    Well that's an interesting, subjective, and unprovable claim. I'd actually doubt the complete validity of it.

    Here is a question from an interview recently posted by JeetKuneDero, in which Bill Wallace refers to Bruce Lee as a non-combative Martial Artist:

    What's the foundation then?
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2008
  5. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    What's the foundation then?[/QUOTE]

    YOU claim to be doing jkd and don't know the foundation? you always have an so called educated oppinion on jkd but your not doing jkd your doing what works best for you. i'm not saying jkd is the best or anything like that just bringing to light how some who mix and match and claim to be doing it which is why there is so much contrversy concerning jkd

    there is some of my responses to your statements in the quote, ^^^^^
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2008
  6. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    if doing JKD means you have to do something besides what works best for you, i have to say it sounds like taking it would be a stupid decision. Doing anything just for the sake of it qualifying as being a certain art sounds like the exact opposite of what Bruce was trying to accomplish.
  7. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    i think your not getting it if by doing jkd does'nt fit you then don't do it, but when you do what you do and claim to be doing jkd is where i see the problem.

    yes, it works for me and after obtaining a certain level of understanding it you are encourage to make what you have your own by testing it, finding what works best for you and move on

    where did i state you need to be doing jkd if you what to be this or that?jkd is'nt for everyone just like TKD, karate, etc is'nt for everyone.
  8. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    i can also see that martial arts liberation isn't for everyone either. I mean that quite seriously.
  9. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    So let's take a step back and look at my post. I didn't claim to "do" jkd. I didn't try to define what it is. I'm learning how to fight from a JKD guy. I know what my foundation is. I know what I train. I'm asking what you think the foundation is?

    As for my opinion - well everyone has got one. I never claimed to know anything more than I did and my posts have always been the same on JKD: "I do what I do, and here's my 2 cents."

    Is that what Bruce would have said? I'll tell you my opinion. The difference between a good coach and a great coach is that a good coach can teach his game to a person with similar attributes and body style. A great coach can teach a game to a person with different attributes and body styles. If what you said is valid, then Larry Hartsell (RIP) would never have succeeded in JKD because he was a big heavy set guy and never would have played Brucey's game. However, contrary to what you said, Brucey's JKD didn't fit him so well and he went on to develop the JKD wrestling phase.

    That was the whole point though wasn't it? That JKD incorporated the most effective principles that were common to all arts? If you play Judo and you go to throw a guy taller than you, Tai Otosh is a better throw. If you go to throw a guy shorter than you, Osoto Gari is a better throw. If you are a big guy, power punching is going to suit you better, and using your speed hand as a lead is going to suit you better than using your power hand as a lead. Any art is different depending on who practices it. My coach is a JKD guy through and through, but he uses a left lead. Does that mean he isn't doing JKD?
  10. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    We are of the same mind.
  11. corwin137

    corwin137 Valued Member

    Plus Juan. Would expect nothin' less.
  12. Stevie Bhoy

    Stevie Bhoy Valued Member

    In my humble opinion, JKD is about building a foundation and constantly working from that base. People have different ways of working from that base. Could be they are misguided or blind. That to me is why there is debate concerning JKD. It comes down to education and there seems to be a shortage of people who are teaching the most efficient way as Bruce intended.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  13. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    That has got to be the clearest put on JKD Concepts I have ever seen put together.

    For that is where the two camps break off beyond the original base. For that is not what Lee did. Instead, he went to a higher level - a level beyond a little of each art's principles - the so called thread which runs through them. This is what even few in the Original camp understand/have been trying to express which those who have concluded said campm as stuck in the past have been unwilling or unable to grasp, and thus, why so many of sound, core principles are sacrificed in Concepts. This is not a criticism. Merely an observation I do not post simply out of some wish to debate, but rather to point out as something to chew on.

    There is a level where it is not about the principles of various arts - beyond JKD as some sort of an MMA, all the while denying JKD as an MMA is the case - for lack of a clearer explanation.

    As Lee once noted, "When you understand motion, you need no style." A statement regarding higher level principles particular to all human beings in combative motion in general rather than to that style dominated thread principle so many seem to have taken as the end all.

    Since saying this will set some to concluding I am knocking said style dominated thread principle's main proponent try to remember that Lee once noted that individual was "becoming too stylized."

    At least that's been my experience of all this. Again, this is something to consider being open minded about before concluding against it. For it's possible truth/liberating effect. No need to fuss about it.
  14. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    and i'm spent.

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  15. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    all said you put your 2 cents in as if your a jkd expert

    to me jkd is being as simple as you can and get the job done and thats were the process is, testing and refining!!!

    you have your oppinion as does everyone and i guess we can leave it at that

    and stevie bhoy i could'nt agree more
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  16. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    here we go again.

    I would also like to add it is a common assumption that in "concepts" anyone is taught only parts of certain martial arts. (i would also like to point out BL wasn't a master at any single art) I mean JunFan was just one's man interpretation on several martial arts.

    There are several martial arts to experience. You find the ones that seem to click with your attributes and you stick with it. Then once you've discovered the way you fight you're on the right track.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  17. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    I know and understand that. At the same time, I've always suspected - and this is just an aspect of my own way of processing things - I've always suspected that might not be the only way to find that freedom of expression and so, to myself, have at times questioned it's possible limits. Not as a criticism but for my own further growth.
  18. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Nice post
  19. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    See here is where I start taking issue. Are you reading my post? Go back and look at my post. In paragraph 1 and 2 I said I didn't have the market cornered but I had an opinion. In paragraph 3 I challenged your opinion that not everyone can do JKD and used Sifu Hartsell as evidence to support my objection (an objection you have not addressed). Paragraph 4 is the only one where I could have possibly insinuated that I was a JKD "expert," and in that one all I did was ask you two questions (neither of which you answered), and make two factual statements about how different throws and punching styles suit people with different relative body types.

    Read the thread G. Where did I come across like a JKD expert? Where G-bells?
    So what, does that mean you only train the jab and the single leg takedown? What? You've really said nothing about how you train, nor have you answered my original question: I'm asking what you think the foundation is?

    Would you care to answer that question?

    Well if that's the case then why in the crap did you start a thread where you basically ranted about people who hold the same opinion that I do?
  20. Stevie Bhoy

    Stevie Bhoy Valued Member

    JKD is not about learning parts of several martial arts and seeing what fits. It's about how to intercept an attacker in the most efficient way as humanly possible. Total self defence that is way ahead of its time. Again, just my opinion.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2008

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