Who is responsible for turning karate into a laughing joke in America?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Vinny Lugo, Oct 16, 2016.

  1. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    Who did this? I mean I have heard good karate is out there but now it seems that karate is percieved by most to be viewed as a laughing joke and almost like a daycare center for kids? What happened?
  2. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    It isn't.

    It is one of the most widely practiced and well known MA's out there. Much to my annoyance, even when I tell people repeatedly I study Kung Fu, many ask me how my karate is going.

    You are painting a huge amount of practitioners and schools with one broad brush.

    It isn't accurate and it isn't fair.

    You say "most" but that isn't a fact. It is your opinion. It isn't mine. What do you base this on? Specifically, how do you arrive at your conclusion? Who did you hear this from? And why does that person have any credibility with their claim?

    You come onto a Karate forum and demean it. You do that, you better back up and establish your claim first. BEFORE asking for us to respond as if your claim like it is a fact.

    The founder of my school was a high level practitioner in Kenpo Karate before switching to CLF and Yang TCC. I think (not 100% sure) my Sifu did the same. Some of the people I respect the most on this forum are Karate practitioners. Some of the best MMA fighters had a base in Karate. Georges St. Pierre, a top contender in any GOAT discussion, being one example. Lyoto Machida, Chuck Liddell as well -both are former belt holders.

    Also, I get really annoyed by people having an attitude about kids doing martial arts. We need MORE kids practicing martial arts and spending less time glued to their cell phones, TV, etc.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  3. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Aardia is right

    But I think we can change this into something more constructive and informative. That would be who is responsible for devaluing karate in the eyes of some of the public.

    That would largely be the strip mall karate belts factories who churn people through without imparting actual fighting skill to them.
  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Eh, belt factories/ bad teachers exist in most arts to some degree.

    There are good and bad teachers in most everything - not just MA's. There are also posers who don't practice in other thigns too. And old boss of mine is a surfer. They had a word for people who liked having fancy suits and boards and liked talking surfing more than actually surfing. Can't remember what the word was, but the point is this whole quality issue exists everywhere.

    IMO, I don't see how having another discussion about bad teachers is all that constructive.

    It is also my opinion, I have said it on MAP before, that people so worried about how others train need to focus on others less and their own training more.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  5. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Well I don't think it's as much just about the bad teachers. Whether you take it as laughing stock or devaluation it's a discussion of how actions, marketing, etc. affect your brand and public relations.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  6. PsychoElectric

    PsychoElectric Valued Member

    Stephen Thompson is solely responsible for turning Karate into a laughing joke in America

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlkcnSWCvsg"]Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson UFC Highlights 2016 - YouTube[/ame]
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    America has produced some of the best Karate echnicians in history - Bill Wallace, Joe Lewis, Jeff Smith, Allen Steen, Fred Wren, and so on.

    You're more than welcome to go compete at any one of the NASKA/NBL tournaments (including some of the most prestigious events in the world, like the Battle of Atlanta). The likes of Jason Bourelly, Raymond Daniels, or the Nash family (including the girls) will probably change your mind.
  8. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

  9. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Can you clarify where you got this idea from ?
  10. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    1) Sorry I should have clarified. I PERSONALLY RESPECT KARATE. HOWEVER, I am just wondering what has happened in America. It seems that karate has turned almost into a children's daycare. In fact it is so hard to find good karate these days because 99% of the places I have seen that do karate are McDojos.

    2) Why does it seem like there is now a divide in the martial arts community? It seems like karate and Tae Kwon Do is for kids, and adults that do martial arts do mma?
  11. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Not true at all. Karate is just as valid as any other Maria art. It just depends on who you train with.
  12. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I don't know man. Maybe it's just my town. BACKGROUND STORY: Back in the day I took Tae Kwon Do and got a green belt at Bill Clark's ATA which is the king of McDojo's all across America. Well Bill Clark's ATA opened its first school right here in Jacksonville, Florida. So we have several other copycat schools that are are trying to cash in. So really you never know whats real and whats fake.
  13. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I am not gonna lie. I considered karate but I chose ti do mma because they let you spar fairly quickly. People viewed me as a ticking time bomb who was a menace to society when I first joined this forum. They thought this because I wanted to spar fast. But the reason I wanted to spar fast was to see if it was the real deal. From my understanding you are doing forms for 6 months before you can even spar which means I have to wait 6 months to see if it even works.
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    And I agree but don't worry about it, it's personal choice. Don't worry about how other people train ;)
  15. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    1) What do you agree with in particular?

    2) I am not putting down karate. I just wanna know what went so wrong in America.
  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I agree that six months no sparring all kata isn't that great. Better 3 months all drilling and then start sparring. Some people spar sooner if they can. I didn't for the first 3 or 4 months.
  17. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    In BJJ?
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah. After the first month we positional stuff with light resistance. No sparring with anyone else until j was three months Inn IIRC.
  19. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Interesting. First place I trained at tossed us right into the meat grinder to begin with while teaching technique concurrently and I've seen a a bunch of schools do that across style. Not entirely sure whether doing that prep time first or tossing people in and give them things they can do immediately yields better results. A meta analysis, or experiment, or both, on that would be an interesting idea. Because it's definitely possible to delve disproportionately into one or the other. Although "traditional" schools tend to stray more toward excessive refinement and "non-traditional" don't seem to have a problem teaching technique.
  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I think in our school it's done more to retain people. We want women and children to feel comfortable too.

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