Who Invented Judos Nage Waza?

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Jutte, Jun 22, 2004.

  1. Jutte

    Jutte New Member

    I've often seen it said in books things like 'Kano (or Mifune etc) invented throw x'. For example there is an often quoted annectode about how Kano discovered kata garuma to beat a sumo wrestler.

    But did they really invent these tecniques? From other sources I've been given the impression that almost all of the throws existed in the old jujutsu ryu anyway, and were mearly modified for use in randori.

    Any opinions, or aguments either way?

    Jutte
     
  2. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    I think most of the techniques are variants on older themes. However, someone had to come up with things like kata guruma first, and it's unlikely to have come from an art based around throwing an armoured opponent.

    I'd probably go with your initial assumption on this one: that most (if not all) of what Kano used was already being taught somewhere else. Just not sure where... :)
     
  3. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    I agree with aegis but I would like to add that most of these techniques have been around from day dot. What Kano etc did was to formalise and categorise existing techniques and because of this people just assume that they invented them.
     
  4. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Like John said ;)

    Peole had probably been doing them for ages yet not 'named' them.
     
  5. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Kano Jigoro, the founder of Kodokan Judo was an exponent of two jujutsu schools, Tenjin Shinyo ryu and Kito ryu. Most of the techniques categorized in early judo originated from these two jujutsu ryuha. Kano Jigoro obtained his teaching licence in Tenjin Shinyo ryu from the school's headmaster Iso Mataemon, four years after opening the Kodokan. Kano originally trained with Fukuda Hachinosuke, but after Fukuda died several years after, he undertook an apprenticeship under the school's 5th headmaster.

    Tenjin Shinyo ryu is an Edo period jujutsu style that's an amalgamation of two older jujutsu schools, Yoshin ryu and Shin No Shindo ryu. It includes strikes, throws, joint locking techniques and strangulations. Tenjin Shinyo ryu is what's known as a Suhada bujutsu, or a plain clothed martial art, wearing kimono and hakama.

    The techniques included in Kodokan judo that come from Tenjin Shinyo ryu are throws such as;osoto gari, ogoshi, deashi barai, harai goshi, ura nage, sumi gaeshi, kata guruma, seoi otoshi and Yoko otoshi.

    Joint locks & shime waza such as; Ude garami, hara gatame, juji gatame, waki gatame, Ude kujiki, hadaka jime, tsukikomi jime and sode guruma.

    You can find these techniques evident throughout the entire Kodokan Judo kata syllabus. The Nage No Kata, Kime No Kata, Itsutsu No Kata, Kodokan Goshinjutsu, Katame No Kata and the Kime Shiki all have technical influences that stem from Tenjin Shinyo ryu jujutsu.

    Kodokan Judo's Koshiki No Kata are kata taken directly from Kito ryu jujutsu. Kito ryu is an Sengoku period jujutsu school that emphasized armoured grappling and various sutemi (sacrificial) techniques.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2004
  6. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    wow, lots of good info, thanks for the read :)
     
  7. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    The version of that I remember hearing is that he borrowed it from Western Wrestling...

    Pretty hard to invent a new technique. You can almost guarantee that somewhere at some time someone has done it before. Humans haven't evolved much over the last 5000 years so as to change the techniques that will work...
     
  8. Furikuchan

    Furikuchan New Member

    Dr. Kano adapted many existing techniques from various styles of jujitsu for use in judo. There are a few that were his own babies, however. De Ashi Harai and Harai Goshi are the first two that pop into mind. I need to ask Sensei for more of them.
     
  9. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Deashi barai and harai goshi come from Tenjin Shinyo ryu's randori syllabus. There's actually quite a lot of historical documents proving this, including Kano Jigoro's teaching licence from Tenjin Shinyo ryu which is stored at the Kodokan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2004

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