White Rose Martial Arts Leeds White Rose Martial Arts is run by a decent man. He is qualified & experienced. The buisness he has set up is not 'dodgy'. Nothing to do with pyramid sales. He's a great instructor and a great boss. You would be lucky to train along side him & earn some good money at the same time. Its a great job opportunity- I'm unsure why people have reservations but I can assure you there is nothing dodgy about this buisness.
I'm sure the buisness is great. What about the martial arts? What about the quality of the fighters produced? What about the integrity and intensity of the training?
Although to be honest as someone that works for this guy, you're hardly likely to come on here and say "The training's rubbish but the pay is awesome!".
There have been a number of similar 'job opportunities' cropping up like this throughout Blighty recently - it is interesting that you said you saw this at the Job centre - looks like another way to pray on someone who wants to get out of unemployment. It is these kind of schools that are usually marketing themselves to kiddies paranoid parents - I'm guessing the words 'quick to learn' 'great for children/smaller people' 'will teach manners, respect' and so on will appear in their advertising at schools and community centres. That being said, the guy who runs it may be great at what he does... but still leaves the sour taste as ScottUK said of martial arts equaling business.
I often use the directgov job website to find companies that need illustrators. Yup, whiterose are there: http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/det...3d45-4655-8a3d-f1b23ac8c9df&pid=4&j=HUS/40722 Quoted from the public domain, obviously.
..and then you have Go Kan Ryu: http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/det...3d45-4655-8a3d-f1b23ac8c9df&pid=4&j=WWJ/54374
...and one last Go Kan Ryu advert: http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/det...d45-4655-8a3d-f1b23ac8c9df&pid=4&j=REA/121354
Hi aireyfairy Thanks for your input. To put your comments in context could you give us a brief idea what your experience in martial arts is, prior to working for White Rose? Also, a couple of other questions: 1. You say the instructor is qualified and experience. I don't doubt you, but the White Rose website doesn't tell us anything at all about the instructors' qualifications. Could you provide some detail on this? 2. Could you tell us anything about the syllabus / training content? In particular, its called karate-jitsu - what would you say differentiates it from karate-do? Thanks in anticipation. Mike
Hi Gary I'm not so sure I'd agree. The kanji for jutsu predates the kanji for do in association with karate. For example, here's a picture of Funakoshi's 1926 book under its original name (about halfway down the page) http://museum.hikari.us/books/index20.html The cover clearly shows the 3rd kanji being jutsu rather than do (as well of course as the first kanji being 'tang/tou' rather than 'kara'). So I see no issue with referring to karate as either 'do' or 'jutsu', depending on the rationale for the particular usage. I am however finding it difficult to understand the use of the term 'jutsu' on the White Rose site given that the only picture of any technique I can see on the site is this... ...hence my question to airyfairy. Mike
I cant help but feeling that this guy will follow up wit a groin punch. I'm wondering about the qualifications of instructors...
Mike, I was being flippant more than anything. As I said... wrong on so many levels - the first of which is that "Jitsu" is an incorrect spelling of the word, but that's just me being a fussy old git. The others come down to semantics in the main. All things considered, I don't believe there is any real difference. I think when it comes to Karate - "Jitsu" or "Jutsu" is often only used by those seeking to stand out - suggesting what they are doing is somehow more authentic or effective than others, or at least it seems that way, particularly with groups here in the western world. As I understand it, in Japan, there is no great difference or emphasis placed on either “do” or “Jutsu”, and whilst I understand all of the political machinations that took place in Japanese martial arts in the early part of the 20th century – they are just words and labels at the end of the day. Personally, whenever I hear the term Karate-Jutsu/Jitsu - I get turned off. Surely “Karate” is good enough? Gary
I did suspect that, but I won't keep my reputation of being a curmudgeon if I don't rise to the bait when its offered. I appreciate there is a spelling issue there but I understand that the Romanji was a bit variable in the past, giving rise to jitsu/jutsu confusion. Ultimately I figure its the kanji that's important rather than the romanisation. If someone asks what I do I usually just say 'Karate', but do genuinely think there is a significant difference, at least if you view it in purist terms. I'd make 3 distinctions: 1. Karate-jutsu: the pursuit of no-nonsense self-defence skills, with no other concerns. 2. Karate-do: the pursuit of character development through austere martial training, with no real concern about practical effectiveness. 3. Sport Karate: the pursuit of victory in a sporting contest, with no thought either for a) transference to self-defence skills, or b) character development. The confusion is that few people pursue one aspect on its own (even if they think they do). For my part I pursue jutsu, but acknowledge that I'm partially using it is a vehicle through which to pursue do (but the jutsu always comes first in my book). I would hazard a guess that most who excel at sport karate pursue that to the exclusion of all else (no interest in kata or impact or self-defence) - I know that some of the top sport karate acknowledge this. The majority of Karate clubs ultimately come from a do background (ie. Japanese Karate-do) but have some degree of emphasis on all 3 aspects. And no doubt they achieve self-defence skills and/or sporting success to varying degrees. But I think you can only understand why your karate is the way that it is if you understand its history. Only then can you judge whether its fit for the purpose you want to put it to and, if necessary, change it in order to best meet those goals. Mike
Hi Mike, I think we are broadly on the same wavelength, in that the art of 'karate' itself, is a platform. The do/jutsu thing mostly to do with approach and mindset. Although I would argue that both eventually cross as you eluded to. In order to achieve 'do' you need 'jutsu' to my way of thinking. The martial methods beget the martial way and all the trappings that brings (granted many aren't interested in that - which is their loss IMO). Either way, you mention about the spelling of 'jutsu' and you are correct, the kanji is more important than the spelling but, I doubt the lot at White Rose would have your level of intellect, that's why the correct romanji of the term is even more important. Gary
Hi Gary I don't think we're a million miles apart. That I'm not completely convinced by. I think serious study of jutsu enjoys the benefits of do. But I do think you can have do without jutsu - in the sense that you can indulge in long-term austere training (and thereby get the mental benefits) in which the training is utterly inappropriate or irrelevant to the requirements of self-defence. Agreed. Maybe I need to be on the end of some more impact training to destroy a few more braincells.:bang: In all seriousness... From what little I've seen so far I'm sceptical about this particular club, but I'd welcome any more input from airyfairy that proved my scepticism to be unfounded. I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong. Mike
I think maybe this is just now the reality. When I started karate in the 80's it was fifty pence a class. The instructor didn't do it for the money. I guess it just about covered the room hire. It's now possible to make a living as an instructor as people are prepared to pay more. I've no problem with anyone earning a living doing what they love, I wish I could, but where there is money there will be people trying to exploit it. Sad bu true.
Some times I wonder about alll the politics and "mcDojo" talk. Over here in britian if some one has a big club (I dont just curiosity here) its a McDojo because of there sales techniques. How ever in america that size of club is considered small and basically not for profit. I think saying what is a McDojo isnt black or white. There just such a huge gry area. If two martial Arts instructors were to go into business together one a World renowned business man with lots of "marketing Techniques" and the other a World Renowned martial artist with a "renowned style" would this then be a McDojo ? What if they became really popular like bannatynes gyms and had to employ lots of people ? bannatynes has sales reps. Martial Arts in general is great and has done lots for me. The more people that learn it the better. Just like the more people that get fit the better yet bannantynes still makes healthy money!! Not have ago at any one I just thought I would express some thoughts that go through my head.
The difference to me is that martial arts should be like marmite. You should love it or hate it. It shouldn't be for everyone because not everyone has the wherewithall to last the distance to any degree. Martial arts run as businesses can often try to make it palatable to everyone and in so doing end up with a bland product. Training in martial arts isn't like training at Bannatynes because at Bannatynes you can get out of it what you want to get out of it whereas in martial arts that process can only go so far.
