The KUGB of old are still alive you know, they still teach, and they still teach hard. As for goju, the worst class I have ever been to was a goju session, the sparring was like being molested. As for people being arses, you are exactly the kind of obnoxious know it all 'beat me over the head with a baseball bat because I do full contact' loser that stops me from wanting to train in Kyokushinkai, so get over yourself.
Hmmmmmmmmm, I like your rationale !!! There are a few arguments in your logic, but, no................. I like your attitude. However, as for todays KUGB nationals against those of the seventies and eighties..............errrrrr I don't think so.......................lol Jaae
You can be honest with me.....................................you're shotokan, aren't you !?..........................lmao
While I will not contest that Funakoshi in many was adulterated his Shorin Ryu when making Shotokan, I will say that it can be an effective art nonetheless. I'll probably forever hold Shorin Ryu in a much higher regard then Shotokan due to Shotokan being derived from Shorin Ryu, and the fact that Shorin Ryu is my first art. I've removed the above post to avoid contributing to a debate which I no longer wish to persue, due to high opinionination both from myself and the opposition.
Armanox, That is a great pity. All opinions and points of view, if informed, have great value and give alternative insights....... There are no ' opponents ' here !? just martial arts practitioners and combat athletes who have a deep love and respect for the arts, traditional and generic and generally, most differing views are good natured and without malice !!! Best wishes Jaae Jaae
Jaae, It's not that I don't feel the need to share thoughts. I feel that it's become more of an arguement (in part due to earlier comments of mine) then an information sharing forum, in a way making opponents out of people with similar goals, and that the comment I made earlier was not written in the direction of a disccussion, but that the comment made an arguement that really didn't belong.
Hey gangstas, I've got no problems with anyone here - particularly Seany who I know has been through a variety of martial arts to land where he has, and Jaae who has a roundhouse kick that I'd kill for! One day when I've got the cash I'll visit all of your clubs and try all these different training styles! Holyheadjch, I still train with the KUGB and yes, lots of the old guard are still around and people like Terry O'Neill are still hard and Frank Brennan is still scarily precise but the focus is still the JKA shotokan that was taught by Mr Enoeda, so if people disapprove of that, then they'll disapprove of what the KUGB teaches today, shobu ippon kumite and all! The strength of the KUGB is that it doesn't change to suit commercial interests, that can also be viewed as its weakness depending on your viewpoint. Armanox - I think that defending the so-called "traditional" styles of karate is not best served by appealing to samurai weapons and historical situations. These guys aren't interested in what karate had to offer in the past - they want to know what our styles of karate have to offer now! I feel that the shotokan I practice has value as a hard-hitting art and that's why I get defensive when people knock the style, but it does have its flaws (e.g. it sucks badly at ground work and the kind of grappling you're likely to find in modern MMA competitions). That's not what I was saying Jaae - my point was that using the fact that a grappler can absorb a blow from me in order to get within range is not a flaw in the style I practice. A decent grappler will aim to absorb a blow from absolutely any style - this is what the Gracie family proved in the early UFCs. That even against boxers, thai boxers etc etc they will aim to take a hit in order to get the opponent to the ground and into "their territory". If this is a flaw in my karate it's also a flaw in every other striking art.
It would be really helpful in these threads if the questioner gave a clue to their location! There's no point in inviting members of a worldwide forum to suggest which style of MA you take up, if you have no means of getting there. For instance, I'm very happy with the style of karate that I do, but it's based around West London in the UK, so I could recommend it but it's be a waste of time if you don't live in the area.
Hi Moosey Moose, As ever, a measured and balanced response..................cool !!! I shall always fight for your rights to defend shotokan from criticism, ( usually mine........lol ). Seriously, I'll be loading grappling / MMA material on my website soon, I'll be happy to hear your points and critique, for despite any differences, I value your opinion ! Best wishes Jaae.
I heard Oyama (founder of kyokushin) once visited a Wado Dojo of Mr. Tatasuo Suzuki and got beaten up by one of Suzuki's 1st Dans. Apparently Oyama was too slow to catch him. Kyokushin don't allow punches to the head do they? Only punches to the body, kicks to the head?
From what I understand, Oyama was just the PR guy and that Kenji Kurosaki was the real fighter, but what do I know. OSU.
Yeah. Suzuki said he heard about Oyama fighting a bull and went to watch. He said when the bull came out it could hardly walk. Apparently Oyama grabbed the bull by the horns and started to wrestle it, but the bull just fell on it's side. It was half asleep. Suzuki was under the impression the bull was drugged. He said by what he saw in the dojo Oyama couldn't fight - well not at a high level. He said he wasn't mobile enough. Too slow.
Anacdotal evidence is pointless. But i am intersested to hear further on the subject if you have the sources.
I've been following the Kyokushin is the greatest form of karate on this and other threads with interest and decided to ask my father who trained in Kyokushin and Juitsu Kai ( Kyokushin offshoot) in the 70s & 80s and fought both Knockdown and WUKO rules in various tournements against other styles which style of Karate was the best. To my suprise he didn't say Kyokushin just simply " Karate is karate, it just depends on how hard you train in it."
He is probably right. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick at the end of the day. There is good and bad in every style. I just don't understand the "Kykoshin is the hardest" attitude when they don't allow face punches. Kyokushin bad? No I don't think so. But I wouldn't say it was the best either. Depends on the person. I've known a few none martial artist watch Kyokushin competitions and they all said the same, that they didn't see the relevance to real fighting. But then they could watch anything and come to the same conclusion. Kyokushin fighters in my opinion are tough. But then I respect Wado practitioners for their speed, movement and Ju-jitsu element. This is missing in Kyokushin. I respect all styles (proper ones) and just sometimes feel that Kyokushinkai (on this forum) seems to knock others without actually understanding what they do. No style is without faults, so I don't think any Karate can claim to be the best. Kyokushin is strong in some points, weak in others, same as anyone else. How did your Dad feel Kyokushin fighting compared to WUKO?
My dad always disliked the Wuko competitions but he also said that he probably learned more from these than the knockdown. Being such a small guy ( 5,4") and weighing 13.5 stones when competing meant that he was more suited to Knockdown where he could stand and trade. Where as with Wuko the taller guys in his weight class would just throw fast kicks and out point him, this often lead to disqualifications due to excessive contact as my dad hated losing.
