wow, what is that she is doing at the end there? looks like a flexible weapon there, but the earlier parts of her movements looks like a sped up section of our second sword form. crazy. i can almost see where the arm movements are just a little different in the crane form, but the transitions between stances and hand motions ARE different. its hard to debate with such esoteric motions like when both hands sweep close to the ground, but the motions still are different. so whats up with the back leaning into the long stance?
I was referring to something along the lines of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_discovery Is it not possible that similar systems developed similar moves?
Yes, but the sheer number of correlations, and the way they appear, especially in a system which as a whole looks very different, suggests they're from the same source.
lol, yeah, we totally don't use that much outer power in our forms. i was thinking more from a counter-balancing the bottom half of the body perspective, but it looks like hung-gar might be more about applications in its forms than we are. don't get me wrong, we are taught applications, but our alignment in forms don't show exactly what we are doing (classic example being our circle chops, backfists, palms). i do think what you guys do is cool for muscle memory and the like. now that i think about it, our circle block to the palm looks a lot like a part in a sequence hung gar people do, and our back leans back with the block/deflect and then shifts forward into the palm. wow. pretty cool. the only thing i wonder is why do kuk sool masters look way more controlled in their motions than hung gar? is it a theory difference, or is simply the locations of our strikes typically fall into a smaller window?
It's a 7 or 9 section steel or iron whip. This weapon was a favorite of Gwai Lan's as well as Yuen Ling's, Tang Fong's disciple. I don't think this weapon is as commonly taught in Hung ga schools as it used to be...the weapon can be very dangerous to the user, unless they're very skilled with it. According to the Hong Kong fish market tales, Yuen Ling carried an iron chain whip for personal protection. http://yeeshungga.com/our-style/lineage/yuenling.html
Hung has a very strong aesthetic anyway, and in TCMA generally a lot of emphasis is placed on expressed power (ging/jing). Also practising accuracy in a solo non-equipment exercise is somewhat inefficient. However, in TCMA in general accuracy is different anyway. It's not about putting your fist in a specific place in space, it's about moving your limb through a specific vector (after all, the finished movement should be past the point of impact).
I take it that your referring to the old Kuk Sool group Kuk Sool Hwe ? Could you name any of the masters involved in the formation of Kuk Sool, what manuals they might have used as well as the process of how things went down? Any details you could give would be of great help. For it is a lost part or hidden part of history.
hmmmm. huh il ung, lee shen hong, kim woo tak, lee han cheol, pak choon shik, etc. i wish i could help with the manuals, but i have never seen any. in my teacher's house there are a lot of books, but i haven't the slightest clue if they have any relation to any of that material.
kuk sool hwe is a name that is a contraction of 'hyeop hoe'... i havent heard any of the bay area masters... from the busan hq... call any group by that name.
Of some of the Masters named, what was their field of study? What martial arts were they known for? Thank you for the info SsangKall.
sure. i can ask master yang a little more, but im sure that i have before and posted what i heard on here. my memory is terrible. maybe search my posts? for the sake of staying on topic, i will ask about who was associated with sibpalgi or palm material.
Yes any info would be helpful. It would help narrow down the Hung Gar influence as well as Mantis, Sibpalgi, Northern Long Fist, and many other arts that played a role in the formation of Kuk Sool. I'm curious as to what each master brought to the table. Who designed many of Kuk Sools empty hand forms? Or what masters created weapon forms, and what did they base it on? Its a lot of questions, I know. But so much goes unanswered. Know what I mean? So much hidden history of the early years of Kuk Sool. It does seem they wanted Kuk Sool to be the Korean equilvalent of the Central Goushu Institute (China). And also seemed to have been inspired by the Muye Dobo Tongji. Eh, just so many ways to go with the history of Kuk Sool and the Masters who put it together in the late 1950's.
so you DID read some of my earlier posts, lol. that is actually where the name 'kuk sul' comes from. for now, the only names and associations that come to my head are huh il ung and a lot of research(books and connections), pak choon shik in having tons of ability (think double jumping spin kicks and landing in a double mantis gonggyeokjase), pi young joon and titles and accupuncture (still might have a clinic in seoul and was first to start the chongkwanjang name battle), and lee hand cheol with fan and palm (my teacher says that he was the best with our upper level stuff out of the first generation).
We do practice it in our school but I have not learnt it - mainly to prevent my own accidental death. In a fighting whip the end of the weight is sharpened. My teacher tells of how he was practising a technique with a fighting whip when my grandfather teacher ran over to him asking if he was ok. Turns out he had sliced his own neck open and not noticed it. Lucky although bloody the cut was not deep.
master song __ hwa from incheon did sibpalgi. my teacher last met him 15 years ago. he is in the airport security business now. makes me think about who wins in history: the people that remain. a lot of these men that contributed to the curriculum and the pot are gone from the martial arts world that we know(school ownership and/or practicing at a school). it is good to hear that they took their experiences and put them into fields that use the martial arts.
got a cool story about wing lam and trying to open a school in chinatown when i asked about hung gar though. apparently back then he was the real deal in sf when there were a lot of non masters in the area. really respectable dude with great martial arts... just chinatown and the surrounding area back then was....hmmmm...different. maybe it is still that way
