when is it ok to kill?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Grass hopper, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    as martial artists and human beings there are certain dificult questions that some of us may someday face. perhaps the toughest of them being the title of this thread. among us are former soldiers, current soldiers, law enforcment officers and self defense experts/attack survivors. what i want to know is, what is your rule?
     
  2. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    A reason I find justifiable. Not much more to say beyond that, it encompasses everything from threat on a personal level to job requirements for me.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    At the risk of sounding trite, "When it is necessary"

    I did write an entry on mindset on MAP and have reposted it several times; it's also on my blog. Look it up
     
  4. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Ahem*

    If somebody is wearing Tapout, that is a justifiable means for killing as well.

    #Giacomo
    #Road House
    #SwagLikeSwayze




    On topic, it would help if you described a little more what your thought process is like on the subject GrassHopper. The question you posed is only good for a specific answer. If you have other thoughts/reasonings/doubts/whatever you want to express it would help move the discussion in the direction I think you're hoping it to go.
     
  5. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    my own personal rule (i hope if the time comes i can stick to my guns on this) is if it can't be ovoided. i'm a pacifist at my core, but one never does know how they react at crunch time untill it's crunch time.
     
  6. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    i have no specific scenario in mind, i'm just curious about what other people have come up with for their own moral frame work.
     
  7. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Fair enough.

    It always seems strange that at the end of the day you were sitting there thinking about killing people, or if you could kill them. It's a strange thing for me to sit and ponder about anyways when I realize what I'm pondering about.
     
  8. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    lol, its only five ocklock here! not yet the end of the day.

    i often ponder things like that, i feel that as an intelligent person it would be a waste to while away the hours thinking about celebrity break ups when i could be thinking about things that expand my mind.

    but then that's just me, maybe it's the people who don't think about the big things that are happier, after all ignorance is bliss.
     
  9. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    I do not believe that it ever truly justifiable to take another life. It is sometimes necessary, and unavoidable.

    . If my wife, children, or my life is in danger it seems obvious. Attempting to Kill another's wife, son, daughter, mother, father , etc in self defense then makes that choice obvious for someone else.
     
  10. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    If something is necessary, then there are conditions defined as justifiable under the circumstances causing the necessity?
     
  11. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    If you are about to kill a man who is attempting to kill your son, then it is o.k for the mans father to kill you?
    It was justifiable to you, just as his father killing you was justifiable to him. Even though you were both protecting your own you were both committing an unjustifible crime against the other. regardless of who threw the first stone.

    That being said what is justifiable to me might be petty to you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    So killing someone trying to stab a child cannot be justified in your view?
     
  13. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    "Justifiable" is of course a relative word. You can't get around using it by saying "necessary." I can easily say what you find necessary is not necessary to me. Of course you have to define what is "justifiable" and both the individual and society as a whole define what that is.
     
  14. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Kill 'em when there aren't any witnesses. If there are witnesses, kill them as a bonus

    Seriously, I do not think about killing, unless someone else has start the conversation

    I do not even think of killing/slaughter of animals when I consume meat

    Because every situation will unfold differently, justified killing may hardly present itself

    I do not know if I could speak for others, I rather not get into that situation

    Perhaps, given a choice for killing and a option (like for a premptive strike, sure the strike is the way to go)
     
  15. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    When you know you can get away with it and the Miss Fortune really, really deserves it.

    Anyone else play League of Legends?
     
  16. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Aaaarrrrrrrrrr
     

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  17. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Hmm, I wonder if you would be able to put the proper intention into a move to actually kill someone in defense of self or loved ones with your perspective. It sounds like you would hold yourself back- probalby subconsciously.

    My Sifu was talking about this once in class. I wish I could give it justice here, but I don't think I could. But the just of it was, while a situation like this is to be avoided at all costs, when it is necessary, one has to be ready and willing and able to fully commit to doing it both physically and psychologically. That without the mental commitment, the physical may not be done properly.

    He was asking us all to think if the situation arose, would we be able to turn on the mental switch to fully really go through with a move that could kill someone? Be it MA with hand, weapons, or just using a gun. That this was something we should all think about and be truthful with ourselves with the answer. Because dishonesty with oneself about this answer could put oneself in a worse situation.

    My Sifu is FAR from the "deadly moves" kind of guy. He was just reiterating that one has to have a mindset in self defense fighting to fully commit to the move completely. Like if someone broke into your house late at night and was threatening your sefety, don't bother pulling a knife on him for self defense if you aren't willing to commit to using it...........

    It made me think about a previous weapons class, where we were using double dagger techniques. So the instructor was going through the moves describing the attempted damage something along the lines of "slice this, then stab the solar plexus with this hand and the throat with the other this way." One fellow student replied with a nervous laugh " but that is so violent!" :eek: This student is advanced, and a hardcore sparrer. I was really suprised to hear this from her. All I could think was, "What do you think you are trying to do if you are wielding daggers? Of COURSE, it is violent. If you are squeamish about it, you shouldn't ever really try to do it."

    I am pretty sure I am not conveying the talk properly. But I thought it was quite profound and it got me thinking a lot.

    Yes, if I or a loved one, or even another innocent person I didn't know well was in danger, and the only way I could stop it was killing someone, I would try and do it all out. My skill level may not let me succeed, but I will give it everything I have, with no hesitation. I see absolutely nothing wrong with doing whatever it takes to stop a person trying to hurt others. However that has to be done.

    The key is the goal is to stop someone. The goal isn't to kill, but killing may be necessary to stop him/her.

    That said, I would probably melt down afterwards. :eek:This seems to be my way. I hold up extremely well in serious situations, but have a bit of a breakdown afterwards.
     
  18. Mugen Zero

    Mugen Zero Infinite zero

    Actually I'll feel like that too. fromwhat my master told me, Here in Malaysia, it's quite strange actually, you are not allowed to kill or break a single bone in the perpetrator's body otherwise you'll be arrested, strange ain't it?
     
  19. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Not as strange as going into an MMA tournament with no MMA training!

    Don't get mad at me either, if I didn't care about your welfare I wouldn't say anything. :p
     
  20. Mugen Zero

    Mugen Zero Infinite zero

    I'm not mad at you, i thank all of you for caring for my safety, and i thought i explained i wasn't joining next year (raised eyebrow)
     

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