A good friend of mine is a ninjutsu practitioner, and spars quite regularly. Now, at first the plan was to train with each other (sparring for example) this summer. But since i actually had my first lesson, getting to know the difficulties in 'letting go of desire to hit/defend', and go with the flow. I kind of seem to understand all i have been reading concerning tai chi and sparring; you dont start sparring until many years later (some say 3 others say 10). Now, my question to you guys; Not in training, but just with other mates, when do you start sparring? Is there any point in your training you want to come to first before even thinking of sparring? thanks!
Sparring at any point in training is benificial. As soon as you start sparring you will eventually get better and better, you'll be faster and so on. Just spar whenever you want gogz
Yes, with EMA, this is the case. However with IMA's, it is somewhat different. Exactly how different im hoping to find out in this thread.
Hiya Choices, I had been doing Taiji for about seven years when the opportunity arose for me to train informally with people from EMA background. We meet weekly, separate from our usual MA classes, and do whatever we feel like on the day. I never thought I would end up wearing boxing gloves learning punch combinations or trying out roundhouse kicks. We also do knife/stick disarms and self defence, using tecniques from various martial arts. Learning this stuff has made me think about moving in different ways and so is helping my push hands practice as I used to tend to remain quite static. It is also good for the ego (imo) to train with people skilled in something you have no, or little knowledge of. And vice versa. It means that the sessions are all about exchanging skills and ideas with others and trying them out. We are all learning and teaching simultaneously and has in no way been detrimental to my taiji training. I would say if it appeals to you, try it and see what happens. The best way to go about it is not to play to win - remember the value of 'investing in loss'. This is a lesson I personally re-learnt again this week duing a lesson. :love: Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Usually just after my flatmate has watched the WWE and goes for a flying headlock from the couch when I walk in the room
It'll be hard to be 'taiji' in your sparring if you have had no experience of push-hands and the other two person exercises, as you won't know what you should be feeling. After that, just stay loose and relaxed, go with the flow, and don't get hung up on winning. You're training to learn to be better, so it's natural to do badly at first. If you don't want to use strength in your sparring, go for a really long run/workout first so that you're too knackered to 'fight'. It's a method that the russian systema guys use and seems pretty valid. Whatever you do have fun with it.
'Sparring' covers a wide range of activities. I've worked in the security industry and taught self defence and taiji on a regular basis to to presidential bodyguards, special services, police, night clubdoormen and other security services for 35 years. If it's self defence you want, what normally passes as 'sparring' can be highly counter productive. 'Application' that's taught in the 'combat' type taiji videos and courses wouldn't work against a reasonable street fighter. You cannot create what happens in the street without serious injury and if your training is technique led - it won't work against a serious fighter for real. The value of taiji is that properly taught it frees the mind and body. The mind becomes open and sensitive to subliminal issues, it can't be influenced by someone trying to 'get into your head'; the body is therefore receptive and being principle led can make a 'technique' out of any reaction to an attack. Pushing hands is the best entry into partner work, polishing the skills of direct entry, pre-emptive striking, yielding, sticking, follwing redirecting and negating. Using 'child prays to buddha' (wedge) to enter, utilising the frames taught in the exercises and form everything is converted to curves circles and spirals turning them into the locks, strikes, dislocations, throws and so on from a flowing movement. Pads have a limited use for striking but 'sensitive' hitting to the right places stopping the flow of energy, or the blood or negating tendon and muscle usage is far more effective. The knowledge of both edged and blunt weaponary is well covered with swords, spear and pole. Pushing hands turns into scenario setting and role playing using different types of opponents with different weaponry in different settings to get as near to 'real' as possible. This is the closest I would advise to 'sparring' if you want self defence skills.
Thought this was well worth repeating. Set techniques are rubbish, unless the attacker has the common grace and decency to attack you in just the right way! I think Cheng man ching said that he did not like 'free pushing' (no holds barred pushhands) as strength was never far away. It's too easy to rely on brute strength in non push-hands style practices, as soon as you do you lose 'it'.
Just a cautious butt in from a ninjutsu trainee. the techniques we are taugth require a lot of control to avoid damage - i've caught a broken rib and throat injuries when we got excited. feel free to spar or lay - but be careful - or learn first aid (i recomend the latter but both is always good)
Sparing? WOW There is so much to tai chi that I didn't know about, even after reading up in the local library. It's just such a fantastic art to learn, you never know what will be uncovered next
I know, Tai Chi rocks! Thanks guys for the replies, from what i understand all in all, is that there is no harm in it. Even though Tai Chi is opposed to EMA, in some respects. I think i will go with the gut feeling of, when i feel i will be able to practise taiji whilst sparring. how crappy it might be, i want to train tai chi when sparring, not just the muscles/reflexes/adaption/improvisation, or whatever. I wish to practice the flow of tai chi when sparring, so i guess i'll just wait for some click to come. . Untill then i think ill be satisfied with other partner training exercises .
I'm largely with Steve Rowe on this one. I'm not really sure how you can possibly develop the subtle, listening type stuff if you're sparring from day one - sounds like EMA not IMA to me....
I have only 'sparred' once. A friend, proficient in Praying Mantis Kung Fu, suggested we spar. At the gym he started all these weird (to me) exercises, so I did a bit of the form as my warm-up - I'd been at it for about 6 years by then. Then we started...well he just came at me with all sorts of hurt-intending stuff (not at all what I was used to i.e. playfull pushing hands) such that I kept retreating, waving my arms about alot. Until suddenly, my hands 'stuck' to his upper and lower arm, locking his elbow and then I rotated about my centre. With a shocked expression on his face, Chas was reduced to hopping madly to avoid having his teeth smash into the floor. We didn't do anymore after that. I found the whole experience useful in that it taught me: 1) Sparring is scary. 2) Tai Chi Chu'an can be effective. 3) No effort required - it just happened, my being defended itself. :Angel: In conclusion, spar if you want good things can happen. At the least I learnt what 'sticking' to your opponant entails.
