Hey there, In your style of karate, is double grading allowed ? And is it a rare occurence or easily achieved by people ? Also, whats your personal point-of-view on double grading ? Do you find it unfair ? Or do you think if a person in your style double grades and you don't its a fair reflection of their skills above yours even though they achieve their grades in a shorter amount of time ? Christian
I know what has prompted this thread In our club you only see mon-grades (used for under 14s, before they start kyu grades) double grade - its unheard of for people to get each of the 10 mon grades, they always double up. When you reach the kyu grades though, you cannot double grade (AFAIK at least) and thats how I like it
you can double grade with us... it is very rare, and is usually only when someone joins as a white belt, but has clearly got good MA experience... it rarely happens beyond the first grading
So what would you think if someone double grades.... ...twice in a row ? Would you be suspect something fishy is going on and simply accept it ? Or would you go question the ppl responsible ? Christian
Wearing a higher belt might make your ego stronger but not your karate. Who cares if people double grade or not?
I've been double graded twice myself mostly because me and a couple of others managed to pick things up faster than the rest of the class and instead doing several gradings in one month (as an example) they just waited until everyone else caught up. I was only in a small club though. But its happened to me to
double gradings are fine if you have the appropriate skill to wear the belt. Simple as that. If you missed the last grading for whatever reason, trained hard and are good enough then award them the belt. But never should a double grade be awarded as a result of having paid or attended enough lessons. (you can attend a lesson or you can attend a lesson) gary www.karateonline.org
well to be honest i don't think i have ever seen any one double grade twice in a row, but... we do allow people from other styles to keep there grade if they are, a) from a style that is similar in nature, b) quite high ranking... however, because the club has maintained quite a high standard in its grades, we are awarded the club badge if we pass our 6th kyu grading... after that you wear the club badge... people who join and keep there grade (3rd kyu for example) from a previous style do not get given the badge, until they show that they are 3rd kyu level in our style, they then take that grading and are given the badge, which says they have achieved that grade in our club too
i've double graded before, i went from 7th kyu to 5 kyu, but my uncle double graded nearly every belt (except black of course)
I suppose circumstances have to be taken into account in this one aswell. For instance a person just starting your style of karate from another style will have a basic groundwork in what they are doing so if they start at the beggining and are progressing faster than a complete newbie then double grading them is reasonable. As much as the belt doesnt really matter to most people after some time if a person can execute all the techniques to a proficient standard then there is really no problem in them double grading. Just because two people start at the same time are on the same belt does not mean that they are of the same competence. Even if they have both not undertaken ma before. everyone learns in their own way, in their own time if someone is progressing faster than you so what. Edit: In my opinon i dont think that a training partner double grading should put anyones noses out we should feel happy and proud that one of our fellow practitoners has done well enough to acheive this i mean they must have worked really hard to do so, well done to them. Were all headed in the same direction but each of us has to pick their own path to get there. I've only seen a double grading once and it was deserved. And it wasnt me. Another edit: as for double frading twice the above applies.....if they are proficient enough in tiehr work then fair enough congrstualtions to them you should feel proud to have someone like this to train with. However their is too much of the 'buying of the belts' going on nowadays and if you suspect that there is anything underhand going on then yes something should be siad or you should just walk away. I personally know of two people who paid £300 for their 2nd dans and when i say paid i mean 'paid'. One i these people im ashamed to say is my 2nd cousin. Obviosly this is something youve come across in your club and obviously like i said before you need to asses the circumstances.
I believe in double grading. Its a rare occurance but no one complains as gradings are done infront of the class and everyone can tell if someone is good or not.
I'm suspicious in this case for two reasons.... 1)this guy has a close relationship to the sensei. He talks with him virtually all the time and even last time asked if he could double grade. That was the first time when he actually made it too and then fainted a total surprise in front of all of us. 2)my other buddy told me ppl rarely double grade even once as its not normal procedure as you are required to fulfill the time for your belt. Of course during our gradings you get accessed on the knowledge overall you seem to have not just your belt so maybe thats why he was double graded the first time. But to counter that argument lots of ppl in our dojo know more than just there belt requirements so how come they don't get double graded ? Two other dojo members, Matt and Helena attend lots of hours and are pretty proficient in what they do. But they didn't double grade.As well as me who attended virtually all the same training hours with this guy (as he used to be a buddy of mine). Thats what makes him double grading again even more suspicious. Another reason: He decided to tell the sensei the first time he was about to leave hence he wondered if he could get that grade of purple & white. Now I wonder if he used the same tactic again as now he really has left. Meaning he got those belts as a "Good by" present from the sensei. Christian
Hmmm reading this i wouldnt be concerened about this guy he was a fly by hes gone and quit no use crying over spilt milk. However i think you may need to talk your concerns through with your sensei you wont be comfortable training with him/her until you do so. What i would do.....suck it up it happened move on unless you focus on yourself and your training and quit worrying about what other people are doing then you arent going to get very far. Its like doing kata with the rest of the class.....your halfway through then you turn focus on the person next to you and what hes doing for 5 seconds and completely lose focus on what youre doing have a brain fart and forget the next move. Apply this to the bigger picture and you get what im saying. If youre happy with the level of training youre receiving and are comfortable with your sensei and respect them as a person stick at it.....if not talk to them im sure theyd be able to answer your questions and the replys may be completely different to what you thought. Remember the only bad questions are the ones that are not asked.
you can double grade in our club, BUT!!, this is very rare, and it can only be done within the first couple of gradings after that the general feeling from the examing board of instructors is that there is to much to learn correctly rather than just giving belts out for money, my instructor once told me that he has no problems in telling someone that they are not good enough to grade and that they should wait and not waste there money. hes stated that he not in it for the money, if he was he'd be rich by now and hes not lol.
There are different levels for a reason. If there is only like 2 gradings a year then fair enough but if there are numerous ones then double grading has no place
Christian I don't believe that people in our style can double grade because they've influenced the sensei. (In fact I think sensei would kick your ass if he knew you were saying that!) To double-grade, you do have to do the second grading as well. I have seen people double-grade. I sometimes sit in on the gradings, and you can see who merits it. There are two kids in our class who have moved over from another style having got a couple of belts, and are starting again at white; I would not be surprised at all if they did it, because their form is clearly good.
I have to correct you on the first thing prowla. I attended my own grading when this guy double graded the first time and he didn't attend the second grading as well. He was merited to get a belt up even though he had only attended the blue belt grading, meaning he never had to do the first two katas for our belt. In fact, when I asked him later to show me he outright refused. And instead wanted to work on the higher belt katas. Actually, because he double graded again now is the reason I got my doubts, not because of the first time. I don't know how the grading works in seiki juku but grading someone up two belts when they don't even do the second grading is absurd. He basically doesn't even have to show he knows the stuff (except maybe from knowledge sensei got from him in class). I wonder now if this guy even knows the things for yellow belt. And also, this guy had no prior knowledge of MA's, at least practical, he does have two senseis in his family though teaching other styles of karate. By the way, as a by-note: At this moment prowla its me doubting the sensei. So to be honest he better make sure I know he does things correctly & their really isn't favoritism at play here. He has to prove to me that what he has done is within legal rules. I left for two weeks because I felt disillusioned by my own efforts in seiki juku because of what happened above. So if the sensei cares about me attending or anyone else attending he better make an effort to make me understand his decisions. Christian
Hmmm - It's a bit disturbing, Christian. I might mention it to my sensei if the opportunity arises. From my perspective, things are done on merit. There may be a bit of leniency from time to time, especially with the yougsters, but I've not seen or heard any such grumbles before. Don't lose heart - you should progress at your own rate (it's not about collecting belts). We've got some damn good people in our style, and you should be proud to be a member. My 11 year old is a 1st kyu who just attempted 1st dan; he got provisional grades twice but took it in his stride and is now an excellent karateka. I've explained to him that it's not a race, but more a journey. That's the perspective I'd suggest you adopt. regards, Paul (1st Kyu)
"So if the sensei cares about me attending or anyone else attending he better make an effort to make me understand his decisions." why the hell should your sensei care about you or anyone else attending??? you are not a customer, you are a student - if you don't turn up, or don't like his methods, that is your problem, not his. (note - i don't know your sensei, and i do not know if he is in the right or wrong, either way the same point is true). why should you care what grading someone else is doing? concentrate on your own karate - other peoples grades has nothing to do with you, and shouldn't really matter - it doesn't effect you... what is this fixation about grades anyway?
Correction Haduken, in fact, yes I'm a customer of the dojo. They make money through me because I pay the "Busen" in order to learn. I also pay for the grading. So the sensei better offer good things to me, otherwise I can leave and they lose a potential customer. Also, in this case it really can turn into a problem of his, as I joined the dojo because of seeing how good the sensei was as an instructor. I had full confidence in him in what he was doing. Until now. And there is no fixation about grades for me. My normal way to grade is one belt at a time and learning the appropriate things for it. Thats how I progressed from red (10.th kyu)to purple & white (8.th kyu). So maybe we should rephrase your question: whats the fixation with double grading ? Because I frankly don't get the point of them. If its not so important what belt a person has why is their even a rule that ppl can double grade ? I twice thought now about appearing in the dojo in my white belt again, to be honest. Why ? Because maybe it really isn't important what belt I wear as long as I got the skill to fight. Christian
