Hi folks. Strange question here; let me know if it's not clear what I'm asking. With certain sports, athleticism can make up for inexperience. Disgraced olymipc sprinter Justin Gatlin is trying out for NFL teams based purely on his speed. Wrestler Brock Lesnar played on an NFL practice squad for a year. Both guys played in high school but not since then. It seems that in football, their athletic abilities make up for their lack of experience to some degree. That is, they can do as good or better with much less practice than someone who is a lesser athlete but who knows the game better and has played more. What about martial arts? If I'm a mediocre athlete and I have a year head start on someone who is a good athlete, how long until they're "better" than I am? What about a great athlete? (Assuming equal levels of time spent practice and equal levels of intensity). How long would it take someone like Allen Iverson (great agility and coordination, and lets pretend he likes to practice) to become more effective than someone who is more experienced and knows more moves based on his ability to execute the basics more "athletically"?
The questions to vague, it depends on a hundred different things like the art your studying and how your measuring the other persons ability in the art to start with.
dude bob sapp american football some times do well in k1,where as michael jordan tried golf and he flunked so it depends on the person.
If there are certain arts that will give more of an advantage than others, I'd be interested to hear which ones and why. And assume that everyone starts with no MA background.
Alright, my point is the activity you use to determine whether someone is better at a given MA will decide what the results are to a large extent. For example, in Judo it's fairly obvious that ompetitive performance is a decent measure of ability whereas other arts tend to not train so much for the competitive fighting aspect so if you where measuring the quality of TKD practitioners by their ability to perform patterns the results would be very dfifferent. In addition to that you have to take into account the quality of instruction, a decent club should result in a much bigger gap between the new guy and the regular trainer whereas at a crummy club or a club which doesn't focus on sparring the difference would be less aparent in sparring. Sorry, I know it sounds like I'm being obtuse here but I'm really not, it's just hard to answer the question without getting a feel for how you define certain words.
Well, it will depend upon their experience. Sprinting lends itself to... sprinting, and if the person can catch, they might be a great wide rec. in the NFL. That's been known to happen. Of course, just as often, a great sprinter has butterfingers and after a few years in the NFL they just fade away. Beyond that, I think it's pretty obvious where past experience will help a guy out in learning a particular MA. Gymnastics or dancing will help with some of the flashier, less practical arts like TKD, Wushu or XMA. Wrestling lends well to BJJ and Judo. Boxing to Muay Thai. Etc.
What you have to undertand is that even though you may have attended 5-6 TKD schools, trained for 3 years and outrank the guy you'r arguing with, any illusions you have about TKD being anything other than the most deadly art in the world are just that, illusions. What you thought was an impractical flashy technique was in fact marsh gas reflecting off a weather balloon.
I find that to be opposite in wrestling, the state champion is 120 lbs and totally obliterated the 270 lbs running back on our team. mind you that is a 150 lbs weight difference. but bear in mind its a form of grappling, im not so naieve to think he would last but seconds in a striking scenario. you see this kind of skill over weight outperformance all the time in wrestling.
Hmmm... tough call. I think one of the biggest factors of athleticism is that the person will often be very confident in their actions. This superior attitude can keep them going where others might lose heart and give up. Attitude alone can many times determine the outcome of things. And to be clear, I'm defining athleticism as not pure quickness and raw strength, but actually refined quickness and strength. A person that is naturally strong is not necessarily a good athlete unless they are coordinated enough to use that strength effectively. Same with quickness. I also don't consider athleticism and experience to be equivalent factors. I see experience or inexperience as affecting such things as awareness, timing, and choice of what actions are taken. I see athleticism as affecting how quickly, evasively, and strongly something is executed, for instance. Inexperience in a situation/context/environment can lead to the making of mistakes under stress, bad timing, missed opportunities, and even panic. The question is, can one survive the mistakes, and still come out on top? The next question is, how much can Athleticism, due to strength or quickness or natural talent, help someone compensate for mistakes made? I've seen people, for example, using strength, power their way out of joint locks. I've also seen people, due to agility and quickness evade attacks that otherwise would have hit them. However experience, backed up with lots of practice and training, should help to minimize mistakes made, help to optimize the exploiting of mistakes made by others, and help to improve timing and awareness. For instance, an experienced martial artist would know better than to try something that isn't likely to work and instead would be more likely to choose practical application. Just some thoughts.
*raises hand* er, evading an attack using agility and quickness, is a mistake? Anyway. People with more natural athletic ability are higher achievers in MA, if we're talking in terms of practical application - winning fights. They pick techniques up faster, they're stronger and have more endurance, and often more aggression. But if you wish to LARP, which most "martial artists" confine themselves to, then athletic ability will only be a minor factor in your success.
No, I was saying that quickness is being used to get out of a bad position that someone less quick would not have escaped from. The mistake was how they got into a bad position in the first place. For instance, they may have failed to control distance and neutralize the delivery system of the opponent, and as a result they made a mistake and ended up in a bad position. The words in bold I wanted to emphasize. Athletic ability could be described as a form of intelligence that goes along with physical attributes. Micheal Jordon moved on the basketball court with incredible grace and control over his body. Ultimately all muscle action and coordination is controlled by parts of the brain. But there are many forms of intelligence, some people are very good at math, others might be very creative in writing, others might very empathic to the feelings of others, etc. It is a combination of many intelligences and physical abilities that can make a martial artist. I know of some that aren't the most strong or quick or smart, but they are freaks of nature when it comes to martial arts. They are a world class higher than the rest. Athletic ability is not just a physical trait, but it is an aptitude, a potential, a form of intelligence, IMHO. It is a combination of certain traits that will give someone the advantage in martial arts, it is not necessarily that a good athlete will do well in martial arts as a whole, they might still have areas that they really struggle in.
Well a lot of MA is training your body to move or respond in a certain way. If I'm already very flexible when I start a Martial Art then that cuts out potentially years of learning to kick well higher than my belt. Same goes for any aspect. If balance, agility, co-ordination, fitness or any other aspect MA builds is already there to begin with then you will find it easier to become good at that art.
I get you. They might struggle with reading obscure tracts of Eastern philosophy, or with writing a 10-page resume for their BB in TKD. Seriously though, having the virtues we normally attribute to a good athlete, is a massive advantage in the martial arts. That is, if we are talking about fighting ability/success, which seem to be alien concepts to a lot of people who post here.
