Whats better bagwork or drills?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Maryreade1234, Jul 1, 2021.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It does build lats and help build the core for a stable platform for generating power, but it also trains generating power in all the wrong ways if you rely on it as a training method for building power.

    I used to do it quite a lot, but only as a more interesting way to keep hold of dumbbells for any amount of time, because repping isolated exercises bores the snot out of me. I'd do it slowly, and practicing all angles of punching would get good variation in ROM.
     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Well-Known Member

    I can’t disagree.
    I think we are simply putting different emphasis on the process. One isn’t automatically superior to the other, but it’s in what works best for you. One thing ive come to understand in my years of training is that very few things are absolutes. What I feel is excellent for my training could be not so effective for the next guy. There is a lot of room for personal differences.
     
    David Harrison likes this.
  3. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Well-Known Member

    Double post.
     
  4. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    Icefield: you posted "Feeling it in your arms and legs is fine, but unless you are practising uppercuts the resistance offered by ankle weights and wrist weights works the muscles in the wrong plane of motion and resistance you are better off using bands of that's your goal." In my suggestions to the man about the weights, I suggested moving your arms and legs around, such as doing Tai Chi or Wushu, this way you are covering all ranges of motion, as well as practicing his moves. I agree that just throwing uppercuts may not cover the needed exercises.
     
  5. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Building striking power is neurological, not just a function of muscular power.

    If the direction of resistance is on a different plane to the angle of the strike, you are not learning how to project power with that strike in the most efficient way possible.
     
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  6. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    Once again, you are correct, that is why I say do ALL directions, do not stick with just one direction. Doing ALL directions evenly builds your muscles for all directions, do not ignore a direction because you will never need strength in that particular direction. Doing all directions is also like structing out, while building strength in all directions. If you stick with only a few directions, then you are limiting your strength to those particular directions, and as you know, strikes are not always in set directions. I see and realize the main point you are wanting me and others to hear, and I realize your point is commonly taught. But try the point I am trying to make, see how it feels for you, also try it with a 10 pound weight bar.
     
  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    My point was unless you are only throwing uppercuts using weights on the wrists isnt a good idea because they provide resistance in the wrong plane than is required when you are hitting someone. The force is applied downwards by the weights when you are striking in a horizontal line and the resistance should be in that plane.
     
  8. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    You are seeing the technical point in a different perspective, the point I am making is that after practicing with the weights, you have built up your strength for any direction of strikes and blocks. Consider you practice throwing strikes at a heavy bag holding 10 or 15 pounds, you have built up your throwing strength.
     
  9. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    No I'm pointing out that one way is more superior according to the SAID principle as well as basic physics it's not a technical point one is correct and more effiecnt than the other.
     
  10. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    Lol, I am glad you used the SAID principal, here is a statement from that principal that expresses exactly what I am stating, "Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands. For example, by only doing pull-ups on the same regular pull-up bar, the body becomes adapted to this specific physical demand, but not necessarily to other climbing patterns or environments." That is exactly what I was saying by doing ALL motions, not just a set few.
     
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    SAID principle means if you are trying to hold up your arms with weights pulling them down, guess what, you will build the muscles needed to keep your arms up when weights are pulling them down,

    that's really not helpful or the best use of your time if your goals is to produce force in a different direction now is it?
     
  12. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    Like I mentioned before, try what I said for a few weeks or so, see how your arms feel, and see how punch's in all different angles feel. I understand exactly from what perspective you are coming from, but, try another perspective. If it does not work for you, ok, at least you are seeing a different perspective. I am not saying your point is wrong, I have seen it and heard it many times, but from what I am talking about, "been there, done that, even bought the T-shirt". I find it not works for me, but many others, it is also used for physical therapy. In physical therapy, they have you do all ranges of motion so that your muscles do not tense up in one direction. Before you were arguing that exercising in all directions does not help or is a waste of time if you are wanting strength in a specific direction, but know you are saying "that's really not helpful or the best use of your time if your goals is to produce force in a different direction now is it?" But that is not what the SAID principal is saying, read it completely.
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I did it for years.

    There is a big problem with striking with weights: you are training your neuromuscular system to activate antagonist muscles because the plane of resistance is not in the direction of the strike, save for some inertia due to the extra weight.

    As an alternative to bicep curls and other isolation exercises, I think it's fine, but what it doesn't do is help your striking power very much.
     
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  14. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    "One good way of working on the bag", is what you said.

    But it's the essential boxing bagwork drill. If you're "not sparring with the bag", you're not using the bag properly in a pugilistic sense.

    Feel free to question this, but it's Boxing 101. The bag is not there for developing power, as other people more enlightened than I have said, power comes all by itself (i.e. does not require any bag to develop).

    Notice the wraps, by the way. Always wrap before beating on a heavy bag. Take that from the pros.

     
  15. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Well-Known Member

    I suppose my take on it is different because I don’t train boxing. And I never ever wrap or wear gloves.
     
  16. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    The heavy bag is boxing equipment. So you're just taking a boxing tool and using it wrong.
     
  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    There may be some element of showing off to the cameras here (open workouts and all that) but if that's the case then George Foreman is also using the heavy bag wrong? He's clearly not "sparring" the bag. He's developing power. I think using the bag to work on that penetrating power, structure, alignment, weight transfer, etc is legit. It becomes sort of like a makiwara.
    Although obviously the more "sparring" type of heavy bag usage is, and should be, the main type of use it's put to IMHO.
    And in terms of using equipment "wrong" then anyone kicking a focus mitt is also using it wrong? :)

     
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  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Never mind breaking boards!

    That's carpentry equipment, they're using it wrong.
     
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I feel that is an unnecessarily dogmatic statement. What is wrong with cross-pollination and repurposing of training equipment between arts?

    Should students of Filipino martial arts be berated for using fencing gloves and helmets?
     
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  20. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    And boxers should stop using pool noodles as they are strictly for swimming only! :)
     
    axelb likes this.

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