What would you really use?

lol! yes, a long knife!

 

Common enough, yes. But I don't really believe that the dynamics of a sword are that similar to those of a knife. For one thing, there are issues of concealment. So the dynamic of the initial engagement is different. I doubt that anyone's going to sneak up on me with a machete in Washington DC. Not saying it's impossible. But it's unlikely.

The nature of zoning where a sword is concerned has more in common, to my mind, with the zoning associated with a stick than with a knife. So while I do train with the blade in mind, I'm not really convinced that a concentration on swordfighting translates back down to the knife particularly well. If knives are my concern, then I'd do better to concentrate on knives.

Know what I mean?


Stuart

 

Who's to say you are studying the wrong thing, study your FMA a little longer and you will realise it is not just swords and sticks you are learning, you are learning angles, awareness and empty hand techniques that will help you survive a real weapons encounter.

Everyone who starts FMA tend to think it's all swords and sticks, untill they learn it properly, then they find out it is a complete art of combat tactics and techniques.

Be patient,

But back to your question, if you have a little expeariance then try to stay at long range where you have more time to counter, if you are very expearianced then what you do in the fight will all depend or your judgement during the encounter.

Regards

Pat

 

Directly translate? no. But indirectly? You're still dealing with a weapon. YOu still have to move. You still zone at angles. The dynamics of wielding a sword are harder than with a knife so the resistance level and coordination is easier with a smaller blade and the distance is just time in space made up with footwork mechanics. They do have similarities impact or edged. I 'm not talking micro mechanics here.

But I also undestand where you are coming from. Training FMA in the U.S. in application would differ from let's say training FMA in the Philippines . It's quite a common tool used in the streets, palengkes (Open air Market) not to mention in Mindanao where they also include Barongs etc. I guess it would look quite suspicious walking down the U.S. with a bolo compared to the Philippines. Anris stick bags are common , you see kids carrying them to school for P.E. classes and public transportation and think nothing of it. Imagine if stick bags were carried into the schools in the US? In some Colleges FMA is taught but not in the lower grades.

 

I'm not arguing with you dude. I'm just saying I don't think it's terribly likely I'm ever going to be attacked with a sword. That hasn't stopped me from training sticks, swords, knives, fencing, boxing, etc. I was just surprised to read someone requesting advice on the best sword maneuvers to actually apply. That's all.

 

good thoughts/suggestions!... then its better to train not just in FMA and rely on it... but to also train in ALL effective range combatives...

yes i've found that FMA in general is a complete art, but i do have doubts in it being a complete practical art... but then again, nothing is really always practical... i'm just weary of some of the teachers of escrima who sincerely believe that itis the answer to everything FOR EVERYBODY...


i say this because in my sparring experience, muay thai or even just a boxer will beat me everytime i use the "angles defense/countering" found in FMA... if i relied on my FMA concepts, when fighting a boxer (because i should stay away from his game) i'll get banged up bad...

but my original question isn't really about the unarmed combat, but about the highest percentage techniques that will give me a better chance of defending/countering my armed opponent--even though it may seem unlikely... i ask this because i love escrima/arnis and hope to teach it someday...

i guess its the whole "better to know it, and not need it than, need it and not know it" that is in question...

SoE

 

well, my question maybe surprising, but that is why we are in this forum... to ask questions (for even the dumbest questions are not dumb--i'm a 4th grade school teacher and i should know)... its just a matter of finding out what other people are experiencing/thinking as they continue to learn...

and with regards to sword maneuvers, in the western/european forums, they do actually ask about the best maneuvers that is applicable... why can i not ask it here?...

i apologize for being ignorant to some, but i want to learn all i can and i have to ask questions... i don't believe in learning without asking questions no matter how surprising it maybe... i someday would like to teach escrima which i love to death and want to prepare for all and any crazy questions that may arise...

though i may sound real defensive now, i really appreciate and welcome all answers and suggestions... i truly would like to meet you all and train and exchange ideas... maybe we all should!...

one love,

SoE

 

No mate, you're absolutely right. It's not a dumb question. Not by a long shot. Just a mildly surprising one. That's all.

Cool?

 

No arguement here either. It's all in the spirit of sharing points of view. Funny thing is we're all in agreement anyway

 

Right you are. Funny how things shake out that way eventually.

 

oh most definitely we are all brothers in spirit and arms... that is why like coming here and reading and finally asking questions...

keep it up!

SoE

 

I work at a bar as a greeter (like what they have at wal mart, but with more sass ). I personally carry a retractable baton with me EVERYWHERE. I carry it mainly for work, but also outside of work given the calibre of people that i **** off in any given night. So i really don't think of it in terms of sword to sword. If I'm outnumbered I'm not overly shy with brandishing it and occasionally using it as an equalizer. I have had knives pulled on me, and yes I am trained to disarm and deal with the situation, but its kinda a last ditch resort. I see that blade and out comes the baton and there goes his piano lessons. I think a baton is the ideal weapon to have accessible for use in a real altercation, as it is versatile and LESS lethal.

 

I would just comment on the choice of ranges when engaging in a confrontation. The question regarding what preference to choose whether corto, media or largo is not within your freedom when in a fight. Everything is a progress the question is when could you make your opponent fall.

"it doesn't matter what technique i use so long as i walk away and he doesn't"

 

totally

 

Since very few present day practitioners engage in sword duels these days, perhaps the question should be "How did the old masters fight with blades?" Perhaps then we can draw insights based on actual experience. Antonio Ilustrisimo, the grandmaster of Kalis Ilustrisimo, ended a fight against a Visayan eskrima expert by chopping off a finger. Ben Luna Lema, grandmaster of Lightning Scientific Arnis, ended a fight by slashing his opponent in the calf. Timoteo Maranga, founder of the Kwentada branch of Balintawak arnis, nearly severed the hand of a Japanese officer armed with a katana during World War II. There are several other instances, but these three cases serve as good examples of the Filipino way of fighting. These cases clearly reflect the important concept of "defanging the snake". The weapons used were Filipino traditional blades. Attacking the opponent's weapon hand was much appreciated in Renaisssance Europe, hence the development of hand guards that neutralized much of the attacks against the hands and wrists. The European duelling sword was a familiar weapon in the Philippines, courtesy of the Spanish colonialists. Yet, the traditional blade, which remained the common duelling weapon, remained without hand-guards. If the European sword was the usual duelling weapon, I am sure Filipino fighting techniques would even be more similar to European fencing moves. In the event that an Arnisador had to face a European style fencer, he has to imagine that he is fighting not a swordsman (bolo man), but a spearman armed with a short lance. This will give him a better chance of dealing with the infamous thrusting techniques of fencing.

 

If it was a real sword fight, I think it would be really hard not to get messed up, seeing as the intention of a fight is to disable/beat your opponent and any sharp implement such as a sword or dagger is going to slice through arteries and veins etc any of which could be fatal. And if it is a real sword fight as you say I would not wait around to see if the other person was serious enough to really cut me or not, or to see if he was planning to seriously mess me up or not. So if he has a sword as far as I am concerned he intends to use it. I would go straight in for the kill (seeing as I would be in fear of my life).

Should he attack first, I like to imagine I could block/deflect the initial attack and then take out as many of his arteries as possible. Keep it simple but be prepared to encounter again and again. It is not always like the movies, over in a couple of strikes.

Or do you mean two expert practitioners using live blades in a training environment, pushing themselves to the limits? Not a good idea, it could never be realistic and could still be fatal. You would have to hold back permanently. Best to use blunt training swords and just acknowledge any strikes.

If you were using live blades and for whatever reason this was all pre-arranged be it against a novice, expert or chancer, a single edged sword would need to be used with more skill than a double edged sword that could be waved around by anyone picking it up causing damage in all directions.
The single edged sword may be easier to to judge as you are more limited on stroking/slashing as you have to turn your hand each time to slice enabling you a chance to deflect/block or/and counter. Whereas a double edged sword such as a Kris can be minipulated in quick forward/back and side to side motions which means your reactions would need to be twice as fast although this could be said for all blade work anyway.

I would reccomend be it your first year or 20th year training FMA, to practice your basics as they are the core to the whole thing. without them you have nothing. Drilling for example two man drills using blocking and striking or counter for counter techniques and movements helps to train your brain until it becomes second nature. So rather than thinking here it comes what do I do you will instinctively react to certain strikes from different angles with the ideal counter that suits you....the one that you have trained and trained. And don't forget if it does not feel comfortable even though someone else is doing it perfectly and looks good doing it, you may need to adapt it to suit you and your style of fighting. Everyone is different, but your basics need to be sharp (excuse the pun).

Long range is the most commonly used when it comes to sword training as if you get too close it is normally over by then, unless you have managed to get hold of the weapon hand during a blocking technique at some stage although I would not recommend reaching out your empty hand too often as it could end up on the floor during real swordplay. Ideally long range is used to counter and manouver around your opponent at a safe (ish) distance to give you time to anticipate your opponents movements and look for his weak points enabling you to break in to medium range and apply your finishing blows. Timing is the be all and end all of a real swordfight.

The fancy stuff is just that....fancy stuff, looks good in the class and in demo's. You will find even the super fast people will stick to basics in a real swordfight. When it comes down to it I recommend the K.I.S.S method (Keep It Simple for we are Stupid)
But don't let this put you off learning the fancy stuff, it makes the art all that bit more fun to learn and it still helps you to improve and understand your basics whilst looking good.

One mistake some people make when changing from stick to sword is they tend to use a hitting/bashing method as you would the stick. The sword is more elegant and needs to be slashed with longer arm movements to be extremely effective with a bit more sweeping motion from the hips, to keep the blade from getting to close to your own body as you do not want to accidentally slash your own arms. Unlike the stick that tends to come back to the body as a reference point.

This is of course my opinion and I do not recommend the use of sharp blades, I have never been in a real swordfight and do not wish to be. I have however in the past trained with a live blade (knife) resulting in severe consequences for the fool that tried to run in on me :cry: ...hence I got nicknamed Slasher, but that's another story.

However I do enjoy a little swordplay.

Lots of love :love:

Lucy

 

I would imagine a swordfight to proceed as follows: There may be circling and some feint attacks. Eventually someone will commit to an attack at a certain angle. The defender will apply the 'block' for that angle, that we learn in the counter-for-counter drills.


If the defender moved too slowly he will have either been slashed across the torso or head, or he has lost a leg.

If the attacker moved too slowly he has just had his arm chopped off.

 

hey i bring mine everywhere too! mine has the LED light attachment which makes it look like a flashlight more than a retractable or expandable baton so i can bring it with me almost anywhere.

 

Nothing can claim to have the answer for everything for everybody, but saying that, you have to beleive in what you do or not matter how effective it is you will not get it to become so. For my money FMA is the answer for ME.

Not neccesarily, some top class boxers from the PI were orriginally FMAers, FMA is good mano'y'mano in close too, FMA is pretty much a complete system, it is just that the weapons are taught first and the empty hand later, so sometimes it takes a little bit of time before you one day just 'click' then you say to yourself, why was I having so much trouble translating it to other areas of combat. It does help though if you can find a good instructor who knows the whole art as opposed to some who only know portions (there's a lot of them about).

The highest percentage of techniques to combat an armed opponent? yes I beleive this would be FMA, after all that is what they are about, being armed and defending against armed agressors, and it is not as unlikely as many people would love to beleive. As a matter of fact it is something that is becommoing more and more common in our mordern day society I am affraid. I hope you forefill that love of the art, I know I have probably learn't more about FMA once I started teaching it, than I did before when I just trained for myself. And it took me a long time and a lot of convincing from others before I decided to teach. So good luck.

Absolutely spot on.

Best regards

Pat

 

Thank you everyone for the wonderful and insightful replies!... Thank you Pat and Lucy and the rest!... i am currently still learning and loving every minute of eskrima/arnis/kali...

i just competed in my first padded stick and rubber knife tourney and i must say i was surprised how i did... yeah, i had only 3 out of 7 wins.... i had in my mind to utilize my sword/bladed way of fighting (for that i what i really only know) and see how i do against the stick...

what frustrated me was when they told me by my second win is to stop thrusting... thrusting is a very very very big part of my "style" so to speak... and i thrust the knife pikal (reverse,ice pick)/edge in way...

with that, they took my game away from me!... hahah... but i heeded Master Reginald Buford's advice (he refereed the tourney) that to take it as a "training match"... with that, and along with my prior expectations, i settled down and played the rules... but lost... hehehe... oh well!... i had mad fun nonetheless... :love:

what really humbled me was when Master Buford (Oakland, CA Eskrima Club Doce Pares), Master Bandalan (Bandalan Doce Pares) and Guro Dexter Labanog (Bahala Na Eskrima) all gave me positive critiques on my play... Master Buford even invited me to come and visit his school... very good and humble man...

I really am very lucky to meet great instructors the past 18-24 months who taught me simple yet very effective techniques and most importantly-- is that they taught me the essence of eskrima/arnis... i am just only beginning to realize that...

i do hope that i have the chance to continue to learn from more teachers willing to teach me... wish i can meet everyone on this forum and learn from you guys personally!

ALL THE BEST!

SoE