Hello I think that what is going on in the 'Tiga-Triangle' thread is very cool. I would like to go a little farther now, if you would please. We all talk about the significance of "lineage", "Adat and Hormat", "methods of training", etc. What do we all do that 'works' for us? I know we all come from different 'camps' and systems. I understand that it is hard for most of those camps to get along too. We have a common thread no matter who you train under in that we train to fight. No matter how you put, that's what it is. Self discipline is a good explanation, but it comes back to fighting. One can also learn self discipline by learning 'music' too, but this forum is inhabited by those who train fighting arts. There ARE elements that ARE universal to ALL of us no matter who we train under. Elbows, punches, hell most of the strikes for that matter ("a punch is just a punch...") are almost the same in any video tape or "magazine". What works for you? How? How do incorporate that into your training? What are your training disciplines as far as what do you do? It's kind of a vague question, but leads the way to many keen insights. Have you used your Silat in a fight? Did it work how you trained it? Please share that if you will. Have you 'sparred' pesilat/murids/students from other silat or martial arts disciplines? What happened? Please let us understand. Respectfully, John
Not that... Wali, I don't even know what that debate is. I'm not that much of a forum veteren. I'm not looking for a debate, or even to start one. I'm just looking for an insight that nobody seems to want to offer. We, the particapants of this forum, train in the 'fighting' (martial) arts. There is some kind of "debate" around every corner of this forum. Some of them just happen to have some insightful posts hidden within... Didn't mean to scare anyone away though. Just looking for understanding. John
Hey RealityChecker, My comment was lighthearted and jokey. I will answer your question from the perspective of my school and lineage. After a certain ammount of time, once the beginners have learnt their basics, drills, etc... and are at a level where they can step up to the next level, they are introduced to light sparring (Not olaragha!). Eventually, the more advanced students fight full on, where pretty much anything goes. We train against people of other disciplines also, so that we are exposed to different types of fighting. This is how we pressure test our silat. Others here will disagree, and they can explain to you how they operate at their schools. Cheers, Wali
Cool... Wali, I know that . Can you elaborate a little more, please? I'm looking to see the 'heart' and mentality of training/testing. How was the "pressure testing" against other systems? When you go full out, how does that go? Lot's of injuries?? We do too when the other guys feel up to it. I recently tore the hell out of my MCL sparring in Feb. playing with low sweeps in real time. I train 85% of the time in the basics, on my own.When the guys are over, we do jurus, lankas, some drills. Mostly we compare notes on the 'understanding that we achieve through study. When something is really bugging us in our training, we turn up the dial and spar. 60% of the time we spar, head gear, mouth piece and gloves are worn. The rest usually just 'happens' and there is no time to put that stuff on. Thanks, and I'd like to hear more. Take care, JR
Check out this cool Silat clip from the team at East West Studios & Reel Combat, Pendekar Benitez has the fastest hands I have ever seen!!! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0MPBaP_gWI"]Reel Combat - Fastest Hands in the World? - YouTube[/ame]
RealityChecker, I can't say that I have been in any all out brawls. I have had several situations with hostile people on the medic unit. And I did get to stuff a loud, drunk "friend" into a car. Most of these were early control issues and not an all out go at it. I was in a situation at an indoor soccer match in which some guy was being overly agressive to the females on our team, so I bumped him into the wall (which I really shouldn't have done, and wouldn't do now.) From the crab position he tried to kick me and I scooped his leg. When he tried to kick me with the other leg I just elevated his leg back towards him. One of his buddies started to attack from the side (shoulder line), but was far enough away that the referee intercepted him. It was nice to not feel intimidated and to feel in control in this situation. Needless to say, I don't play soccer anymore, as it is much to violent. I noticed that this thread hasn't gotten many replies. Probably, because most people don't want to argue about what is and isn't enough "pressure testing". At any rate, I liked your comment about looking for insight. We have many different ways that we try to get people to activate there material. By approaching this from many angles we hope to let a lot of personalities be able to learn the skills. One method we use is to place the attacker at an exceptionally close range. That attacker doesn't have to feed fast, but attempts to attack smoothly thus forcing the defender to react efficiently and without thinking. We shoot for that nice "aaahh" feeling when we are the defender. Circle drill (if you recognize this reference) is a great way to "force" people to use new and unexpected material. Crowding the defender with several attackers (the attackers don't necesarily have to attack simultaneously) is also a great way to put a little pressure on. Escalating the BN drill of sambutan into a full go situation is a good way to avoid some of the dangers of "picking up the pace" and also allowing less skilled practitioners to get into the mix. Learning timing comes from practicing jurus slow and bringing them alive. Your instructor should be able to help you with bringing your jurus to life. I have seen a little "sparring". Bart
Thanks Guru Bart, At least someone pays attention to the questions I ask, and answers them to boot! I don't know if you read one of my previous posts about a multiple opponent siuation that I was in. I forgot what thread it was in. It was really intense and I feel I learned a lot from it, though I vaguely remember the details of it. I suppose have always been able to 'streetfight'. It is pretty much a prerequisite for growing up in Chicago. I am just spending a lot of time these days trying to figure out how it all works! Take care, JR
Well, I'll start by saying that all of what I'm write is from my opinion only ... of course . There are different ways to express energy/intent, therefore a punch/strike is not just a punch/strike, it can have different flavours e.g. sticking energy (nempel), whipping energy (sabet), crushing energy (palu and ndobrak) etc. It is important to understand the principle over and above a prescribed set of movements. Jurus and langkah are the way to gain body-knowledge of a principle until you are free from restrictions ... and free from analytical thought process, and can respond appropriately ... in other words gerak nurani. How much does the fear instinct factor play a part? I think it plays a big part. The body will react in a certain way for self preservation when it senses that there is danger. The problem is when a person has that body-chemical reaction that we describe as the fear instinct, we get a big dose of adrenalin and that has the effect of inhibiting fine motor control, and that is a natural phenomenon. I think that most people only remember a small component of their 'art' when confronted with a self-preservation situation, anything too complex ... forget it! How effective you are in real life, depends on how effective you are at training your response to the fear instinct ... it helps if the situation becomes normalised i.e. you confront it often enough to make it normal for you ... and sparring has limited use in this regard ... but you could moon-light as a bouncer maybe ... Salam
