What should be the progress route in xingyiquan?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by Siddharth, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. Siddharth

    Siddharth New Member

    I have been researching and practicing on my own for around a year xingyiquan(di guoyang youtube series+ tim cartmell neigong book+ book Li Wen Bin) and qi gong (baduanjin + yi jin jing) I have prior experience of shotokan for 4 years and goju ryu for 1 year. I started with dr. yang jwing ming's lecture series on qi gong + essence of shaolin white crane. Series of articles by "SAL Canzonieri" on 'Natural Traditional Chinese Martial Arts' on his website were an eye opener for me. And now i realize all those years i was practicing a washed out stage show martial performance.

    I dont have a xingyi sifu here and i am sure i wont get because this is India. I used to do 'Hata yoga' earlier but the principles and theories of xingyi has got my attention. I read certain forums on Ming,An, Hua jin and realized may be the okinawans did learn pure chinese martial art + internal training, but when japanese sold karate to the world they had only empty shells with them.
    Okinawan Te = washed out fujian white crane; karate = washed out okinawan Te; Olympics karate= might become......TaekwondoFied karate
    I could be wrong but i have limited resources as in direct contact with any martial practitioners so all i can do is observe, read and practice through videos and books. In India all they teach is kickboxing whether it is katrate dojo or kung fu.

    I humbly request everyone to please instruct me in identifying the correct pathway in xingyi and which lineage should i follow(every book and video has different version of the same quan). If possible please provide any links or text material.
    It would be appreciated if anyone could talk more about the pathway of cultivating the inner instead of just instructing to practice San ti shi, 5 elements and 12 animals.
    I regard everyone as my senior or sifu replying on this post, salute.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  2. ned

    ned Valued Member

    You'll save yourself a lot of time and energy by seeking out an actual instructor, if needs be in a different style, rather than trying to teach yourself Xingyi.
    Especially since so called 'internal' martial arts can be patchy, to say the least, in terms of competent instruction.
    Good luck in your training !
    Monkey_Magic likes this.
  3. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    A couple of things..

    The specific lineage in not very important. It will only amount to a personal preference or what is the best material available or open to you. Sometimes there's no getting round a bit of trial and error.

    Personally I'm not against 'open learning' per se, but the caveat is that you should be realistic about how much you can really achieve by yourself.
    Always be on the look out as you never know who is around, join social media groups and so on.

    One thing that jumps out at me is that you list 3 sets of exercises. It's quite common in martial arts to catch FOMO; fear of missing out. But ask yourself, do you really need every exercise from all of those ?

    I am familiar with them over the years and I would say that you would be fine just going with the Cartmell Xingyi Neigong set. Quality of practice over quantity everytime. You only need practice (regularly) one of those sets at any given time as they cover fairly common ground. In my opinion that is..

    And FWIW I know of a Yang Taiji lineage (Fu Zongwhen) being practiced in India, so reach out and look anyway, as you just never know who or what's around if you don't. Even if it's just likeminded folks to begin with.. You might consider a distance learning set up of which there are some success stories certainly. With Skype and things like that available it can be relatively fruitful.

    I know (of) this guy Paul from the UK who seems decent and he has an online course:
    Try: Xing Yi Academy

    Then there's Ken Gullette who is quite well known in the community and has offered online courses for some time I believe:
    Learn the internal arts of Chen tai chi, xingyi, baguazhang and qigong

    Or.. one of the creme de la creme of CIMA in my humble opinion (and pay accordingly) try Serge Augier of Paris, France, he does online learning too.
    Da Xuan – An Ancient Tradition for Today's World

    Good luck
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  4. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    This isn't the place or the time for that sort of thing - in my opinion. Esoteric ideas and practices are not all that well received on this board.

    Having said that you should look up Tom Bisio, google is your friend. He teaches the same Xingyi Neigong that is in Cartmells book and he is worth a look. He has a video course on it.

    The pathway, is as always, follow the instructions! ;D
  5. Taoquan

    Taoquan Valued Member

    I was taught that Xingyiquan is essentially the "Originator" of many "Internal Martial Arts." It is the Father of Taiji/Tai Chi, the Grandfather to Baguazhang (Pa Kua). If you find skilled teachers in any of these Arts you will find similar principles in these Arts as to be found Xingyi (Hsing I). While there are now several lineages in Xingyi, I was taught that really it is "Splitting hairs." Xingyi used to be merely known as Xingyi, but as masters would travel, or learn and move it would eventually become known as "X-location" Xingyi, but it was still Xingyi.

    One of the main reasons there are different styles, even within different styles (Chen Taiji, Yang Taiji, Hubei Xingyi, Cheng Bagua, Etc) is because it was not uncommon for skilled practitioners to learn different Arts (like cross training...it is not a new idea) and then these Teachers would encourage their students to blend the Arts and make them their own. Guo Yun-Shen told Sun Lu-T'ang to put his Bagua into his Xingyi and Cheng Ting Hua told Sun Lu-T'ang to put his Xingyi into his Bagua.

    As I mentioned before they essentially come from the same "lineage" that way. If you closely examine Taiji movements you can see Xingyi movements in there also. Xingyi, traditionally, had mud stepping and circle walking. Bagua has straight line (Post-heaven) sets. A potential application for most Chen Single Whip is a variation on 8 elbow set out of Xingyi. It is because they all shared and became interchangeable this is see a lot in the Sun Family Lineage.

    As for the "internal" practices of the internal Arts, it will be some time before you should even attempt getting there. First and foremost the most important is to learn to condition your mind and your body for that kind of training. Some of the Meditation training and everything requires sitting or standing for hours, also add on top of that deeper Taoist practices and meditation traditionally incorporated into these Arts, you can really mess yourself up if not practiced with an experienced Teacher.

    Everything requires a good foundation so it can be built upon, focus on that first. Then work towards the deeper levels and internal aspects. Regardless of whether you believe in Qi or not, forcing your body to do anything it is not properly prepared for is just asking for trouble. A good teacher will be able to guide you when the time is correct.
    bagels, Siddharth and ned like this.

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