Hi J, Are you eating the seeds again? Seriously...and excuse me if my input is ridiculous, but reading you, and looking at your diagram, it seems that you're talking about the way the arms are connected through the back - what I've seen referred to as one of the "bows". Just a thought. Regards, LQ ps - no watermelons were harmed during the making of this post.
Hi LQ, Actually I just ate some braised Tofu from a tin. It was quite nice, but not organic and that doesn't always bode well for my digestion...
Hi J, You should be like me, eat only what you know agrees with you! Last time I strayed off course, I payed dearly. To clarify, tongbei is the term for the "bow" across the shoulders..? I think it's a moth. I just really like the color, shape and symmetry of it. Hope you feel better soon, LQ
I made a doodle! the arrows indicate the direction of force being applied. I think the confusion may be that directions are not the triangle being refered to. The triangle.. We need 3 points right. So ok all this is describing are the areas we issue out from and the meeting point.. So 1 and 2 on the doodle mark those 'points' the third point is where the two forces meet despite the direction of force.. We need three points to make a "triangulation". That is all it is describing. It can be seen clearly on the doodle. The directions marked by the arrows can change with the placement of our arms and hands. The three points still remain. 2 areas were the forces are come from (not were they go). And a third were they meet. hope this helps. ps. apologies for the size.. Don't know how to fix that.
That's a lovely picture, but it doesn't show Ji as I understand it. I do think that would use quite a lot of isolated muscle contraction strength. Let's face it though, I'm primarily a Zheng Manqing stylist and he threw out loads of stuff from the Yang style because he was very focussed on momentum. Momentating here, momentating there... If anyone is bothered, I wanted to say for the record that if the pulling in towards the body arrow in my tongbei vectors picture was holding on to the opponent to pull him in to your strike, that would be Cai and Ji used in combination. Alternatively, the hands can produce a kind of expansive triangulation with the rear hand performing Cai and holding the opponent's arm in place while moving in to him with a sideways chop and that would be a Cai and Lie rending combination. Only the Lie hand would have whole body power behind it, the other would be static. My understanding of the 8 methods is chiefly from the Chen style, incidentally. Different systems are going to produce slightly different interpretations, effects and combinations. I focus chiefly about the techniques that small fry can get to work on bigger people. Hi LQ, tongbei is like a pulley system, a bit like Karate punches. As one fist shoots forwards, the other shoots backwards, around the vertical axis of the spine. That's my understanding anyway.
Hi J, I bothered. Just so you know that someone read it That's how I understand it too. And now I have the term for what it is. Tongbei! Cheers, LQ
I don't agree with this. I'm primarily a Cheng Man Ch'ing stylist, and I do applications very much like the ones Chris is doing in his video clip. Although see them as coming out of downward deflect, parry, and punch (as he is advancing rather than shifting back), which is ok because I see the primary method from downward deflect, parry, punch as ji. I was also taught to twine and sandwich limbs before applying ji (much in the sane way Chris is doing, perhaps a little bit different). I really don't see Chris pulling with his bicep after he swings his arm in place, it may look a little that way because he likes to hold his elbow out after he gets it in, but the rear hand is clearly the substantial and the lead is insubstantial. I don't see him trying squeeze his chest closed, rather I see him driving forward with the rear hand and guiding with the lead hand. Cheng Man Ch'ing did like to emphasize swinging momentum, but that doesn't necessarily mean he went around throwing out stuff either. It's more of a matter of emphasis rather than exclusion.
Sure, whatever, I can only go by my teachers. I've trained with a few different Zheng people and learned to emphasise different things with each. That's why I test everything. Like when I saw Chris's techniques, I tested them to see what the body does when making those shapes. That kind of Ji was one of the first Tai Chi techniques I learned, but I understood it as a more Bagua orientated interpretation using Bao zhang (embracing palm) in conjunction with Shu Zhang (vertical palm) rather than a pure Tai Chi idea. The fact is that it relies on biceps strength exactly as I've described and that is no good for small weak fighters. I don't give a flying monkey who does it or if they can get it to work for them, pincer crushing relies on localised strength and that's that. Nothing can hold the front arm in place other than biceps contraction. It simply couldn't hold the targeted body part in place any other way. If you must employ that kind of technique, shearing like a pair of scissors works better in my opinion, so that the two vectors pass over each other. Any other favourite fighting techniques? Ji has run for quite a few pages now and we're not really getting anywhere.
I like any kind of ward off - yield into elbow strike, but in most cases I find that if I can get any kind of purchase between hand and elbow it invariable turns into pull(down) - roll back(maybe with flying step) and attack the elbow. This also usually results in the person trying to twist away which exposes the back so, again, elbow to anywhere - below the shoulder blade, back shu points, kidneys. Obviously not back of head as it's far too dangerous.
I like punching people in the face. It is overlooked much in today complex martial arts but a good smack in the chops is supremely effective. The Bear.
Not to mention a good wake up call Now I picture this situation: Random person: "I know Shaolin, Tai Chi, Karate, TKD..." Polar Bear: *Punch in the face* Random person: *falls over wondering what happened.* As for another Tai Chi technique, not sure what it would fall under (power wise), but I like the versatility of Cloud hands also. Can you all tell I like apps that offer 1,000s of possibilities This move seems like a simple block, but with some styles adding the turning of the palms differently (Ala chen style that rotates the arms out, the style I currently study moves the hand in a forward circular motion rather than, back and forth) makes it so much more useful. I like the Chen application of using it to throw someone that has grabbed onto your wrist. Whereas, the current way I am learning it is a series of blocking and punching (we do it similar as if you were working on a speed bag). Would anyone know the proper term for this type of force? Ji, An? a combination perhaps? edit: darn smiley today
One is not above punching people in the face repeatedly. One does not do it often as one would not like to "over egg the pudding". The Bear.
I punched people in the face tonight and I can vouch its effectiveness. I even drew a picture. I am the one with the big guns laying down the five fingers of justice on some fool.
"Some fool"? You mean you don't even know who the guy was? Maybe we should have a drawing contest! Here's my entry. It is called "feet - here and then" and it juxtaposes the plight of a lone struggling conscience in modern consumer capitalist culture with mankind's attempts to make amends for the rise of mammalia at the expense of the dinosaurs. It's very poignant, actually.
p.s. I liked piratebrido's piece for its daring Neo-Brechtian imagery. The stark immediacy of its forms accurately opine the dualism of tragedy and victory within a single, searing frame, telling us much about the role of both art and artist in the world today.
It looks as though both his limbs are converging to an area in what I see as as a striking fashion.. In combat those would all land as strikes. It is seen clearer in that way when he uses it against the leg. Understandably he dosn't land with any force at other occasions. Its not about using your chest to close. But your whole body. In the taichi form there is opening and closing. You wouldn't use an isolated part of your body. However you would use your whole body and this action of squeezing through the upper body is included, when applying ji for these applications. Those limbs are both converging.. One is not 'hitting' the other. How are you defining the bolded terms btw? Thanks. ps. I train with both Chris and his Tai chi teacher, and this is how I understand what is going on in these applications, as they are taught. If i'm making a mistake i'm sure he'll jump in and correct me (I hope)
Tai Chi does contain opening and closing, but it also contains other concepts such as substantial and insubstantial and double heavy and double light. So you can't open or close in both directions at once. If you are turning around your vertical axis (spine), which all techniques must (according to Hong Junsheng and various of my teachers) your body must be committed to turning in that one direction. Oh what's the use, you'll keep arguing anyway. Think what you like about everything
