What is Mu Sool Won

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by The_Beak, Aug 3, 2010.

  1. The_Beak

    The_Beak Valued Member

    I haven't been here in a while but while veiwing the "who wore it best" theard(Both of those fine gentlemen have awesome uniforms). I saw this posted by Out-To-Lunch:

    MSW is like a reconstruction of pre $ grabbing KSW...

    This is Intriguing to me.

    When I left the Won I was being pressured to join the Black Belt Club$$$ and counting my pennies in worry over testing fees.(You want how much for a black belt test and i have to take four!?!?!?!)

    Please tell me more about MSW. :D my google search has only revealed it is taught in Texas (I'm in Texas).

    Most importantly is it trained with aliveness as defined by Matt Thorton?
    Cuz i'm in that cult now.(Thanks bullshido)

    I have been training grappling (BJJ/MMA/Judo) sporadically since leaving the Won but it would be fun to dust off the old Dobok and Sool around every now and again.
  2. Out-to-Lunch

    Out-to-Lunch Valued Member

    Mu Sool Won is simply Grand Master Byung In Lee (Kuk Sool Won 9th dan) reconstruction of traditional Kuk Sool Won. He left following the recent franchise fiasco, and was a loyal supporter of KSN and the WKSA before that for many, many years.
  3. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Well TB MSW is a new offshoot of KSW by Master Byung In Lee he recently left the won, due to a reconstruction of the business model of ownership, the WKSA has now become a franchise. I would think that it is comprised of the same techniques and hyung as KSW so your experience will probably be similar. I think he's located in San Antonio TX?

    BBC is usually Voluntary, but I know it is a method for instructors to add revenue for their school. AFA BB tests are concerned...are you sitting down...It is now 8 tests minimum, However you only have to pay once which is always the way it was with the 4 tests.

    Master Lee is a very nice guy, and very good at what he does. There are people that frequent MAP that I believe are his students so you will get the biased version from them...nothing wrong with that...they should support their Master or Grandmaster as it is now.

    Good Luck TB
  4. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    I presume that's an arbitrary — but fixed — number of tests regardless of how good or, indeed, how bad someone is Obe? Any reason in your mind why it's 8 and not 7 — or, 57 come to that?
  5. The_Beak

    The_Beak Valued Member

    Holy poopers, I'M in San Antonio. number or address plz.

    Ah I had no idea about only having to pay once that my stoopids showing thank you all.

    Edit: does anyone know any thing about the aliveness?
    I mean if he's in San Antonio i will just check that myself but if anyone can weigh in on that it would be much apperciated.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
  6. Ki_Power

    Ki_Power Banned Banned

    Austin Mu Sool Won Family Martial Arts Center

    13584 Pond Springs Road
    Austin, TX 78729

    Telephone: (512) 258.7373

    Link: Mu Sool Won
  7. TheMadhoose

    TheMadhoose Carpe Jugulum

    Kuk sool won for cows? sorry its the accent that threw me off........
  8. drewsif

    drewsif Valued Member

    As Ki Power pointed out, Master Lee is located in Austin. MSW does, however, have a dojang in San Antonio run by 4th Dahn Len Trevinio.

    Edit: The number of tests you take for black belt is up to Master Lee. I have seen people advance in as little as five, and as many as ten. It depends on the person.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
  9. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Just a quick question from someone who may be missing something....

    Is there a practical and fundamental reason for so many of these threads and responses coming back to personalities when it comes to various KUK SOOL arts? I think what I am trying to ask is whether there is, in fact, a clear and significant difference in what is taught by one person as compared to another when it comes to these many options.

    I have been reading many of these threads, both before and after the franchize issue, and think I have a pretty good appreciation of the political and business aspects. What I am asking about now is whether there is a substanitive difference between practices, say, depending on when a person began his teaching efforts. Anyone? Help?

    Best Wishes,

  10. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    And not to detract from GM Byung In Lee, but AFAIK there is also a school in SATX which hails under the banner of GM Soon Tae Yang, if MA groups run by former KSW high-ranking masters is your cup-o-tea, The_Beak. Here's the info for that dojang:

    Options are always nice, aren't they? :bow1:
  11. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    I see that no one answered the most important aspect you were looking for.

    The short answer is no. You simply won't see full-resistance, "alive", training the vast majority of time...you won't see it even half the time.

    Think of old-school Matt Thornton before his modern JKD interpretation and before he met Rickson.
  12. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    :topic: OFF-TOPIC :topic:

    Not exactly sure what you're driving at here, Bruce, but most of the BBs (many whom I either know personally or else I know someone trustworthy enough who knows them fairly well) in KSW or other kuk-sool related systems, who attained a high-rank are all on a par WRT their respective skills & knowledge. Some may specialize in certain areas and therefore be more knowledgeable when it comes to those topics, but generally speaking, one does not *out-class* any other. They are all noteworthy IMO. :cool:
  13. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    I'm not saying you're wrong here, VM, but unless you are privy to the exact practices adopted by GM BIL for his new MA organization, it might be better not to speculate and let someone who DOES know, answer that question. Simply mentioning the fact that The_Beak's "most important" question wasn't answered would've sufficed, don'cha think? :dunno:


    If this is some sort of attempt at humor, Obe, then I can understand you making such a remark. If not, well... :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2010
  14. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Your knowledge about this is clearly lacking.

    Actually, one of the JKN's from that school posted a training and sparring description and it is NOT aliveness training as described by Matt Thornton. MSW is still very much a KS school as opposed to a new pre/post JKD formula put together by Thornton. If anyone here has proof that BIL is running a MMA/UFC school and not a traditional KMA school, please correct me here.

    Further, it seems to me that you want to skirt the issue and put up smoke and mirrors to an earnest question by the Original Poster.

    The best people to answer the original question posted are those who have had both KS training AND the aliveness MMA/BJJ training. Further, the Thornton camp has roots in Rickson and Machado. Do you even know what that entails?


    Oh you two! :rolleyes:
  16. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Nope, I was dead serious and I don't GAF what you or anyone else thinks about that...sorry :hat:
  17. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Well Ollie that is a very good question, I can't speak for Kuk Sa Nim but for me I say whatever... 1 test 57 tests whatever it takes. Good or Bad is relative to the individual student. I have students that can do back flips, and others who can barely kneel and get back up. I look at each student individually and only compare their progress with where they where yesterday. So I use the multiple testings as a benchmark of their progress, guiding them to the next level based on previous performance. I actually take notes at the quarterly tests. I use that information in class to concentrate the material toward the goals for a particular student, or the class as a whole. So for me the 8 tests works well because it gives us time to work on material and in 3 months see what we have accomplished. If a student trains consistently and doesn't miss tests then in 8 test he will have progressed to "his" next belt level.
  18. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    love the thornton vids, too! the rickson school i practised at in sacramento was definately pressure tested, and to this day i enjoy the method they taught technique both sides --> reversal options both sides --> counters to reversals and finally finishes. after a week of class (with ten years in tkma), transitioning from takedowns to thinking about position in the next part of self-defense (the ground) started to make a little sense and actually pushed my brain to think... differently.

    str8 blast still sucks
  19. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Another Rickson guy huh? How long did you study there? Another Mapper, J-Sun, is a Rickson guy too. I'm a GB and Renzo gal.

    What don't you like about StraightBlast? Is it the JKD, the Savate, the MT interpretations or the Cardio classes? The SB-Beaverton BJJ was solid IMO.
  20. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    one semester of study. like my two semesters of aikido at a chiba school, memorable.

    actually, no real quarrel with the idea of str8 blast physics-wise, as the self defense instructor at the correctional facility i work at ko'd a boxer with one at a battle of the badges. simply barrage a person with the quickest way from point 'a' to 'b' with knuckles on the center line until you reach the paul vunak or SPEAR trapping range. all good in theory, until some conditioning and takedown work gets ya face first. so i feel i can knock it when you see these personalities go through transformations as they learn more groundwork. on the other hand, maybe tkma personalities could learn from their approaches to hoshinsul...

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