What is "Internal MA"?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by alister, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    But Derren claims nothing beyond trickery - in fact he insists on it being nothing more

    Again I ask do you have a favourite charity - or do you yourself need $1million? if yes to either I have a great way to show us chi exists and get the cash
     
  2. rhunter25911

    rhunter25911 Valued Member

    I am always looking for great ways to study and practice, tell me and teach me something that I can us to better equip myself for my personal journey.
     
  3. rhunter25911

    rhunter25911 Valued Member

    Well, I don't have a favorite charity, and I am listening! Are you telling me that Derren uses trickery to do such amazing things.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vz_YTNLn6w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vz_YTNLn6w[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt7KS9M66FI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt7KS9M66FI[/ame]
     
  6. embra

    embra Valued Member

    This Cheese stuff will never go away. Someone always digs it up - yet again.

    Stem cell Qi Gong? - Do me a Raspberry :Alien: - How's about Quantum Mechanical Flamenco?

    Where do folk concoct these names from?

    None of this serves IMA in a +ve manner whatsoever. Anyone coming to read this thread from conventional MA and/or a vaguely scientific outlook, and deduce that IMA is bunk.
     
  7. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    http://www.mastermantakchianyc.com/stem-cell-chi-kung-iron-shirt-2/

    [​IMG]

    I've decided.
    With my rudimentary knowledge of biological systems and my Indian heritage, i'm to convince a bunch of westerns that using sciencey words and sex, they can cultivate their "Stem cell pranas"

    oh wait. these same shenanigans having been going on for ages
    it's called psuedoscience

    i used to read about a case every week where some numpty was convinced by a "Master" that sex with certain people (usually the "master") would change their chi and fortune, then found out it was a con and sued.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  8. rhunter25911

    rhunter25911 Valued Member

    Thanks, this is pretty impressive, I have never seen anything like this before. Do you know how to do this and you do this?
     
  9. rhunter25911

    rhunter25911 Valued Member

    Good

    Thank you, that was helpful, much respect!
     
  10. rhunter25911

    rhunter25911 Valued Member

    Alright I am ready for some more!
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It is a variant on - and in some cases explcitly - Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). The reason it did not work on the hot dog vendor was becuase of the language gap
     
  12. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    OK.But your statements in this regard have come off as rather "this is THE way",not unlike Chia himself whose attitude when I listened to him was "everybody else is doing erroneous practices-except me." I found his attitude in this,among other things, rather a turn off. Oh,and not true,either.

    What systems have a ch'i package as part of the overall system?Most CMAs have some sort of ch'i/nei gung training as part of the overall curriculum,some of which are purely health practices.Most "internal" power development training utilize physical movement practices regardless of what else is entailed in the particular exercise.

    Sure, I know practices which are like the things Chia teaches,but the majority of fighting "IMA" masters usually have a very small curriculum that is not directly martially oriented and do not have 20+ practices dealing with lots of other types of gungs unless they are personally inclined to such-a practice which seems much more prevalent today in "IMAs" than in the past. Only so many hours in a day to practice and most of that would be spent in those practices directly related to martial ability. There are of course practices which may be taught early and are later discarded in one's personal practice.



    OK,that's fine,I'm not unfamiliar with this type of thing but knowledge of your organs and glandular system via gungs doesn't necessarily translate to greater martial aptitude.Neither do star energy practices,except perhaps mentally. So the idea that such things make for "true" MAs is...I dunno,plenty of people have done just fine without any of that type of training. Any of Chia's folks consistently doing better than others in matches/tourneys? Proof of the pudding is in the eating.



    If you really want to know about the inner workings of the body how about the study of anatomy,kinesthetics,neurology,etc?Much more detailed info than any gungs I know of as relates to actual understanding/knowledge of the vehicle we walk around in. There are plenty of books on athletic training which are not devoid of this info.

    Y'know it may be heresy but the Chinese knowledge of the body,even in TCMA was actually pretty sparse. Japanese doctors in the 16-1700s were astounded by European anatomy books which covered sooo much more than even their highly regarded Chinese manuals.So much that a group of them taught themselves Portugese so they could read the manuals they were getting from Europe. There were many things inside the body that the European manuals covered and Chinese and Japanese doctors didn't know about nor have names for.Neither did the butchers they went to to verify the manuals.

    Hmm.I was wondering if Chia taught the star energy thing before or after B. K. Frantzis started talking about it.

    I'm thinking it's either a renamed exercise to sound more modern/scientific,or something Chia made and named it to sound same.

    After the existence of AIDS was finally acknowledged by most of the world there were suddenly lots of "Ch'i Gungs for the Immune System" being advertised.Now there were plenty of ch'i gungs for health purposes around but before the words immune/immunity/etc were being splashed across the news so much nobody used such words in their naming/marketing. Seemed pretty obvious it was just new marketing to a frightened world.

    There's a person in my town teaching ch'i gung for breast cancer prevention. I'm doubtful any Chinese practice was called this in the 1950s.
     
  13. rhunter25911

    rhunter25911 Valued Member

    Are you practicing Japanese or Chinese styles?

    OK.But*your statements in this regard have come off as rather "this is THE way",not unlike Chia himself whose attitude when I listened to him was "everybody else is doing erroneous practices-except me." I found his attitude in this,among other things, rather a turn off. Oh,and not true,either.



    I thank you for your post El Medico, I have enjoyed it tremendously. Just like myself, Grand Master Chia know's what he has, and so do I. I am a strong believer in the Arts, and his Inner Alchemical Practices. I can not justify how he acts, but for me, I am strong in my belief because I know it works. I am a person that will not dance around my words because you are uncomfortable with the truth. Now as for the Grand Master you may have to ask him for yourself. Do you think that the title of Grand Master comes easy, if yes, then where is yours?


    "What systems have a ch'i package as part of the overall system?Most CMAs have some sort of ch'i/nei gung training as part of the overall curriculum,some of which are purely health*practices.Most*"internal" power development training utilize physical movement practices regardless of what else is entailed in the particular exercise.

    Sure, I know practices which are like the things Chia teaches,but the majority of fighting "IMA" masters usually have a*very*small curriculum that is not directly martially oriented and do not have 20+ practices dealing with lots of other types of gungs unless they are personally inclined to such-a practice which seems much more prevalent today in "IMAs" than in the past. Only so many hours in a day to practice and most of that would be spent in those practices directly related to martial ability. There are of course practices which may be taught early and are later discarded in one's personal practice. " - El Medico

    This is my point exactlly - what happend to the curriculum?


    "OK,that's fine,I'm not unfamiliar with this type of thing but knowledge of your organs and glandular system via gungs doesn't necessarily translate to greater martial*aptitude.Neither*do star energy practices,except perhaps mentally. So the idea that such things make for "true" MAs is...I dunno,plenty of people have done just fine without any of that type of training. Any of Chia's folks consistently doing better than others in matches/tourneys? Proof of the pudding is in the eating "

    I am gland that you said that because, the father of all martial styles, had an all inclusive package to his approach. Are you familiar with Da Mo? Da Mo started every thing that you are doing today. In Grand Master Chia's Publications, he has books and knowledge that fits the description of the information that Da Mo brought to China so long ago. Publications like: Tendon Nei Kung and Bone Marrow Nei Kung. Da Mo may have brought knowledge with him like;"The Illustrated Light on Yoga" by BKS Iyengar. This bookis not only in my collection and it allowed me to achieve extreme flexibility. It is the most comprehensive manual in my opion on the subject of stretches and more.

    "If you really want to know about the inner workings of the body how about the study of anatomy,kinesthetics,neurology,etc?Much more detailed info than any gungs I know of as relates to actual understanding/knowledge of the vehicle we walk around in. There are plenty of books on athletic training which are not devoid of this info."

    Anatomy,Kinesthetics,Neurology, I will study more on that, thank you!

    "Y'know it may be heresy but the Chinese knowledge of the body,even in TCMA was actually pretty sparse. Japanese doctors in the 16-1700s were astounded by European anatomy books which covered sooo much more than even their highly regarded Chinese*manuals.So*much that a group of them taught themselves Portugese so they could read the manuals they were getting from Europe. There were many things inside the body that the European manuals covered and Chinese and Japanese doctors didn't know about nor have names*for.Neither*did the butchers they went to to verify the manuals.

    Hmm.I was wondering if Chia taught the star energy thing before or after B. K. Frantzis started talking about it. "

    So the real question is B.K. Frantzis before or after Da Mo?


    "I'm thinking it's either a renamed exercise to sound more modern/scientific,or something Chia made and named it to sound same.

    After the existence of AIDS was finally acknowledged by most of the world there were suddenly lots of "Ch'i Gungs for the Immune System" being*advertised.Now*there were plenty of ch'i gungs for health purposes around but before the words immune/immunity/etc were being splashed across the news so much nobody used such words in their naming/marketing. Seemed pretty obvious it was just new marketing to a frightened world.

    There's a person in my town teaching ch'i gung for breast cancer prevention. I'm doubtful any Chinese practice was called this in the 1950s.
    __________________
    "To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is high attainment.Those who cannot do this will be broken on the Lathe of Heaven." Chuang Tzu
    "

    This is my most favorite that you wrote, thanks. You are right - "Proof of the pudding is in the eating." - El Medico

    "This Cheese stuff will never go away. Someone always digs it up - yet again.
    Stem cell Qi Gong? - Do me a Raspberry**- How's about Quantum Mechanical Flamenco?*

    Where do folk concoct these names from?

    None of this serves IMA in a +ve manner whatsoever. Anyone coming to read this thread from conventional MA and/or a vaguely scientific outlook, and deduce that IMA is bunk. " - Embra

    Japanese Styles come from China, says Liu Jin Sheng in his book; "Chin Na Fa - Skill of Catch and Hold"on page 10. He said, and I quote; "During the Ming dynasty some Chinese Chen Yuan Yun sailed to Japan and brought with him two kinds of Chinese national martial arts, in one of the grappling and throws prevailed. He taught local inhabitants who tried very hard and dilgently acqried this skill".

    So in fact, both Japanese and Chinese arts derived from India, via Da Mo. He started all of the martial systems that you enjoy today! I have been knowing about this for the better of 20 years. Practicing knowledge from great manuals like Harry Wong's Dynamic Strength Tension, which I have personally owned for well over 20 years and still practice today.

    Thank your time and energy, and I wish you well in your training! El Medico
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  14. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Absolutely correct!

    When will people learn, there were NO codified fighting methods in China until Damo brought them from India.
    And Japan remained a peaceful, non-violent society until the fighting arts were brought over from China!
     
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Oh yeah.I'm real uncomfortable with "the truth". Whose truth?

    As I said before,most of the things you listed are established practices .If you like what you're doing and it works for you,great.

    Grandmaster of what?Who gave him that title? Is he a "grandmaster " in TC,HI.or PK? Anything else is unimportant to me in this discussion. I don't care if he was given a "grandmaster" title in Taoist meditation/alchemical practices. My concern is with CMAs.

    Before the advent of modern day (latter part of 20th century) title gathering each CMA system or subsystem had 1 acknowledged grandmaster-which was more a title of deference than necessarily meaning he was the best in the system. (Or didn't even have any GM).This was given to the succeeding disciple, a family member,or by election. Nowadays we see titles such as grandmaster,great-grandmaster,etc,etc. It gets ridiculous and makes such titles meaningless. I recognized the late Yang,Shou-chung as the grandmaster of Yang TC. Anyone else calling themselves a Yang system GM was in the context of CMAs simply dishonest.

    So I need to have some GM or something title to disagree with someone's student because their teacher has a title? (A very common title these days).

    If I'm required to have some sort of cardboard status title to speak about things then I guess you shouldn't waste your time replying to me.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What happened? Do you think all the legit "IMA" people in the past practiced such a large number of these non martial specific practices as you do? Thought I stated this wasn't the case.


    OK, I may have no titles but if you believe the fantasy Boddhidharma MA stuff you are WAY out of your league talking history to me or any of the folks here who have spent the time delving into MA history not based on 19th century sword novels or made up oral "histories" of MA systems and other such drivel. Some of the things some of our teachers (yours and mine) said and believed were incorrect.

    Sure!:)

    No,that wasn't the question at all. Anyway,I don't recall and I'm not looking it up,but isn't Bruce's a Taoist practice?( Please correct me if I'm misremembering).In which case Boddhidharma and Buddhism might not have had any influence on the practice.

    Thanks. So how do his direct students do playing with others? I don't mean t'ui shou.

    And thank you. In all kindness you really need to look into CMA history.The Boddhidharma/Shaolin tale of the birther/birthplace of CMAs is pretty tired,and not given credence by historians for the last century.

    Harry Wong? I might still have that somewhere. His program pales next to the grandmaster,Charles Atlas.:D
     
  16. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    yeah and westerners and africans never wrestled or boxed or hunted!
     
  17. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Oh, come on, Zaad, you've not heard the story of how Da Mo brought capoeira to West Central Africa? In fact, I've heard that--not trusting so serious a task to the Africans themselves--that he even boarded a Portuguese ship to bring capoeira to Brazil himself!
     
  18. embra

    embra Valued Member

    I thought that Da Mo brought football to Brazil.
     
  19. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    That was Pe Le.
     
  20. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Didn't the ancient Himalayan sage Ga Rin Cha alos not have a hand in bringing footie down from the mountains at the top of the world to Brazil?
     

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