What is "Internal MA"?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by alister, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Whenever the word "internal" come up, I always like to ask the following questions.

    Will the "internal" guys execute

    - roundhouse kick, or
    - hip throw

    differently from the "external" guys?

    In the past many years, I still haven't had my questions answered.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Although the answer is "No" IMO, most "Internal" guys wouldn't throw a roundhouse because it exposes the groin to attack :)
  3. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    i fail to see how exposure of the groin during a kick like a thai kick (my only experience to roundhouse type kicks) unless you closed distance really quick
  4. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Evasive step (usually very small) and kick (which may have some turn and or whip in it) to unbalance.

    Some folk are damm good at catching roundhouse kicks - but I wouldn't want to try against a well snapped howitzer roundhouse kick. One of my TaiChi teachers in Belgium is also a seasoned Sanshou fighter and teacher - his roundhouse kicks are unbelievably painful - even at low velocity - such is the momentum his stocky body generates.

    Being on 1 foot will momentarily expose the groin and more significantly (IMHO) render the kicker position feet immobile on the ground.

    Hip throws:- White Crane Flaps its Wings trains for this.
  5. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The low roundhouse kick is similar to foot sweep. I don't seen "expose groin" in the following clip. Your groin is covered by your leading leg.

  6. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Kicks can be trapped, locked, turned and joints broken.

    Even trapped, the kicker is left hopping about on one foot.

    Defender must move slightly (to one side or another and sometimes back a touch) in order to meaningfully catch the kick.

    Also with similar small evasive movements, kicks caught from behind and swept/spun away.

    None of this is simple however.

    In response to 'what does the internal guy do' - he/she has to develop a very good sense of very small movement from the centre of gravity such that the external movement is effective (described above).

    Meeting kicks head-on and trying this trapping/turning is unlikely to function - hence evasion and associated centre of gravity initiation is essential - and has to be developed intelligently.
  7. embra

    embra Valued Member

    The attacker is not kicking. The sweeper is evasively moving to put his front leg in front of his groin to setup the sweep. Against a snappier and/or more full-blooded/commited kick or kick and follow-up strike, the setup sweep and guard groin is more difficult but not impossible.
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The foot sweep is used when your opponent moves forward and puts weight on his leading leg. If your opponent kicks at you, you will 1st catch his kicking leg and then sweep/hook his standing leg. You will not use the "instep to ankle foot sweep" in that case because your front instep cannot reach to your opponent's back ankle.

    In the following clip, I also still don't see "expose groin" issue.

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  9. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Once a kick is caught, the kicker is in a very weak position. The mechanics (or bio-mechanics if we want to yack 'internal') and drills to develop all of this are not trivial - but they do borrow a lot from Shui Joia (pinyin spelling?).
  10. embra

    embra Valued Member

    If you are big and stocky like YKW, you may get away with less movement and more raw strength. If you are like me - small and skinny, this luxury does not exist.
  11. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I agree that all high kicks has risk to be caught. This is why I'm only interested in "foot sweep" and "knee stomping kick" at this point of my life. Both will have minimum risk.
  12. embra

    embra Valued Member

    100% agreement there John. At 54 I am simply too old to become some out and out high kicker.
  13. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Old age do affect one's ability to deliverer high kicks especially the high jumping kicks.

    When one has reached to his old age, should he continue to train his jumping kicks, or should he stop doing so completely? One thing for sure is, if he stops train it, he may lost it forever. I still don't know the best answer for it.
  14. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Keep practicing it, but understand that the motivation for practicing has changed..
  15. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Agree! The motivation for training high kicks or jumping high kicks in old age is no longer for combat but for "health" (balance, flexibility, and jumping ability). Last time I met my long fist broth, he could still do his triple non-landing kicking combo (jumping front kick, jumping back heel kick, jumping outside crescent kick). That was very impressive for his age.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  16. embra

    embra Valued Member

    With all kicks these days, I concentrate a lot more on landing with a degree of control, so that my next move is a bit more fluid, rather than just raw force.
  17. embra

    embra Valued Member

    The sweeper is catching quite deep - but could punch/knee the groin - and head-but the attacker in the first or second salvo. Subsequent kicks are dealt with more cleanly (IMHO.)

    For sheer brutality, catch the kick and enter powerfully to strike to throat - a variation on brush knee twist step.

    Kicking attacker is exposed on three fronts 1) kick is caught 2) throat is a weak area - if he has the presence to guard his throat area - push him on his guarding arm/body 3) he is on one foot and is immobile on the ground - other than southwards.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  18. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    The only difference would be the "additional mechanics" employed. Which could also be true for CMAs not considered "internal" but which also may contain such things.

    There's your answer. Pretty mundane,huh?
  19. 23rdwave

    23rdwave Valued Member

    Glen is using 6 directions, maintaining his zhuang tai (mental/body state) and holding his bao. He is internal and not using his muscular strength, just his mass, when throwing the punch.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
  20. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod note: Welcome 23rdwave.

    Here at MAP, we ask for context/ opinions/ reasons why a video is posted. If you are going to revive a thread that has been dead for over a year year with a link., please tell us how this video expresses something related to the topic.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015

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