What I learned in class today...

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by Tian-Tian, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member


    Holy halberds,Batgirl! I'd hafta write a book!

    Nice to see he's making you folks do this-makes you think,and it'll help him seeing what you each have grasped so far.

    I take it you did something out of alignment when you stepped back-it can be done straight or at 45.(Tho' to my knowledge Tung's only utilizes the 45,which I prefer myself.)If you stepped straight but were opening at kua to have your leg at a 45 that would put a strain on your knee for sure as the weight wouldn't be transferring correctly.Ow! Sorry,I know all about "sensitive" knees.

    He's right,you must be precise due to your condition.Other people may get away with not being dead on but you'll get immediate feedback-at this time with a detrimental result.You're going to have to really really exercise/develop your kinesthetic perception-which you must do anyway, so in the long run having to concentrate on it to an even greater extent at this time than your classmates will prove very beneficial for you in the future.Since you have to do things very correctly or face the consequences you'll actually probably be a leg- (or knee)- up on them over time,and will enhance your ability to do new things correctly sooner.So even tho' the situation bites,there's a bit of a silver lining.Keep that in mind.

    Ben Lo once said something about you can't ask people to be patient,you must simply ask them to persevere.You seem to be doing a pretty good job at that,and with the physical problems from your accident it's a lot harder for you than others.What I'm saying is you're truly being more gutsy.Appreciate that about yourself.

    Good to hear you classmate stopped being a jerk and the two of you could kid around.

    :heart:< That's for your knee.Get well.
     
  2. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    Day 19: In which my knees both refuse to function and possible grinding in the meniscus is felt...??! Also, sports medicine fails epically.

    I went to my math class and FINALLY passed Module 3; go me. I win at life... unfortunately, my knees do not. :confused:

    So went to TC class. My knees weren't feeling too stiff; mostly mildly achy. Because there was no one in the classroom, I started some light Qigong exercises, then started into the first set. At about the time I got up to Single Whip, a few more classmates arrived, and Paul did, too. Upon observing me briefly, he murmured nearly inaudibly, "looks good".

    We then went back a few movements before single whip to see how I was sinking down on my back leg. Apparently, when I do so, I have my back leaned too far forward, thus rendering a curve much too large in my lumbar region of my spine. Upon correcting this, my form was much better, but my knees still hurt.

    So Paul and I did a sort of 'push hands' exercise, using two hands. He told me to take his energy and channel it down to my lumbar. Then my hip, keeping it out of my knee.

    And for a split second I felt I had it, but then my left knee did something weird and I had to move because it was so painful.

    We started into class and I sat down on the side, trying to pinpoint exactly what was hurting, because the pain was just radiating everywhere it seemed.

    While poking around, I felt something akin to grinding in my right knee. With Robert, the TA, leading the class, Paul was free to come over and take a look. After poking around a bit, and confirming that my knees were doing some clicking, he asked if I had a recent MRI on my knees; I told him no.

    He said, "you have enough muscle around your knees to support it but you need a brace to take the pressure off."

    So I went down to the physiology lab in the PE building, only to discover they did NOT have knee braces (WTH) and told me I had to go to Sports Medicine.

    Which is, by the way, on the other end of campus. So I went there and, after wandering around trying to find sports medicine I found it... to discover it was locked and no one was home. I then found the sports office and was told that "Tai Chi is not considered a sport" and therefore I could not be treated... even though I told them I was in a PE class. "It's more like a club." They said to me.

    :rolleyes: Honestly.

    I was then told to go to student medicine (which is in the OTHER direction across campus) and see if they could see me there. I would have otherwise done so by now, but it costs $10, and I don't have that kind of money on me right now. And I'll probably be charged for the knee braces, if they have any. And at this rate, I may just need two of them.

    So I'm in a computer lab, wondering what the heck my next step is gonna be.

    Lesson learned: some people have a great capacity to care and others just don't. Deal with them accordingly.


    EDIT: *in Schwarzenegger voice* I have MAHSCLES. *flexes leg* ow.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2010
  3. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    So I figured out why my joints were hurting so excessively...

    I have the flu.

    :D
     
  4. Lau

    Lau 8-bit power

    Complete inner peace.

    Our Tai Chi trainings are always combined with Qi Gong and it wasn't until yesterday that I managed complete inner peace, slept like a baby too that night :)
     
  5. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Oh yeah! (If you're training correctly) we have a different name for it-

    Exhaustion:)
     
  6. pqs

    pqs Valued Member

    I did a seven hour seminar with Nigel Sutton at the weekend and had so much inner peace I missed the David Have fight It might have something to do with having one glass of wine!
    Regards
    Peter
    PS
    Where is Tian-Tian I miss your posts
     
  7. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Was that a one pint glass or a big one ;)
     
  8. pqs

    pqs Valued Member

    One glass constantly refilled:cool:
     
  9. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    HEY Y'ALL!

    I owe y'all a profuse apology for not updating in what feels like months. :eek: I was slaving away in my math class and using a lot of my TC time (to include writing on MAP) for studying math. And when I wasn't doing math, I had other big projects/tests to work on.

    It's a lame excuse, I know. But HEY! I'm back for a brief moment!




    Day 22??? In which I learn how the first and second set connect together. Sort of.
    :D

    I got to TC today feeling pretty good. I'm getting really close to weighing under 200 lbs after fighting my way down from 235 earlier this year.
    Actually, minus my shoes and clothes I probably weight right at 200. Whoo! Cue checking self out in mirror before class started.

    I'm so vain. :D

    Anyway, we started into some QiGong work-- and I realized how HARD it is to bounce back after having not done TC in a few weeks.

    We started in thereafter on Reverse Breathing and Paul told us a story of one of his previous instructors utilizing the TaChing* for defense. Paul told us how that instructor told him to punch him. So Paul obliged and he said "it felt like punching a pillow. There was just nothing". So we working on practicing nothingness today while doing reverse breathing.

    We then started working on the second set. And this time, because I had been out of it for so long, I felt I was in a workout. And it occurred to me that I had forgotten that my class was registered as a Physical Education class-- there was a REASON for this!

    Paul went on to randomly jump to talking about 'Snake Creeps Down' in the third set. Paul told us that the only person he knew of that could go all the way to the floor and bounce right back up was T.Y. Peng. "I've seen women try to perform Snake Creeps Down and, even though women are more... spongier than men, I have only seen very few people do it properly besides Peng. And he's getting older, so he doesn't do it as fast as he used to."

    So then we, as a class, attemped Snake Creeps Down for ourselves. Apparently my knees neither like snakes nor creeping down (backstory: I fell a few times on the way to campus due to some icy conditions. Thank goodness my snowboots held my ankles in place!!!)

    And then we worked on-- no, we DRILLED the second set repeatedly. Paul told us that the Yang style had been changed to make it more healthy. He said that Wu hits hard and Hao was "Wu style on steroids". :confused: Perhaps there was a joke in there that I missed?

    We went up to about Teasing the Monkey. I FINALLY figured out how the heck to do it without killing my knees. And I FINALLY figured out how to do Cloud Hands. GO ME!!!

    Anyway, all in all, it was a great class, as usual, but I seriously got a WORKOUT, more so than I did hiking in snow to campus earlier this morning.

    The lesson learned?
    Creeping snakes are hard to imitate, but it's easy to tease a monkey.

    :hat:


    *TaChing? Not sure if that's the right spelling. It's right below the navel, from what I understand.
     
  10. pqs

    pqs Valued Member

    Welcome back
     
  11. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    It's a bit of a nonsense to say things like this. Why people still perpetuate these memes in this day and age I can't fathom.

    The forms were modified by Cheng Fu, smoothed out etc. as he demonstrated and taught widely and publically, however that doesn't make them any "healthier".

    The reverse is probably more likely to be true.


    Whilst that may or may not be true, depending on who is doing the hittin..
    This Wu style is more notable for it's wrestling applications if anything. The Wus' where a soldiering Manchu family, so it makes sense that they were very familiar with Chinese wrestling.

    Whilst the other Wu family were educated, monied and well connected politically - of a very different social standing and class. This is the style that would later come to be known as Wu-Hao.

    Who's tcc would you think, if you had to pick, was more martially potent at that point ?

    Which is a little misleading at face value, and kind of a silly thing to say anyway..
    Wu Hao is based off a different Chen clan teachers tai chi than Yang Lu Chans is - which Wu (Quan You) style comes from. As well as coming from a different Chen source they pass through completely seperate lines.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  12. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    :D Thanks for the clarification Cloudz; Paul may have simply been in a teasing mood about much of the stuff I quoted.

    In other news, I am gonna bust some TC out on the snow- it's 12 degrees F for my first winter with snow! Whew!
     
  13. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Yang,C-f simplified the form to make it easier-including for those who weren't healthy.This was part of his and Wu,C-c's popularization of TC to the public.

    Cloudz-I'm sure Paul is referring to the old Wu,now most commonly known as Hao.Tung originally studied old Wu and after his time w/Yang learned a lot more from his Wu teacher,who came to see him and teach him in depth. Wu is generally kept in Tung's TC as a teaching for select senior students. Wu style placed an indelible stamp on Tung's TC - the most obvious being the external look of the solo form with both the torso and limbs at times having a more rounded appearance than Yang's. If you care to,look at the differences twixt Yang and Tung in Brush Knee when the stepping leg is raised but has not begun to step forward.Look at the leg from a front view if you can find one.

    Tung's "feels" different due to this explicit rounding.There's also some mechanics which Tung's employs more often than Yang's-ones which old Wu/Hao places a greater emphasis on than Yang's.

    I don't know why Hao would be (old) Wu on steroids tho'.

    Tian-Tian,so nice to hear from you again.Hope the flu wasn't too bad.Congrats on the weight loss,I know you've been working on that and that's much more work than any martial practice.Your knees will begin to thank you too.

    If Paul thinks people can't go to the ground and spring up w/no problem he should visit some of Ben Lo's students! (Ben,by the by,can go all the way down with his body supported by the rear foot and raise his front leg and wave it around!)I figure he's also speaking only of Yang and its derivatives as Chen system executes a similar move (Dragon to Ground ) which requires one to drop into a full hurdler's stretch position and bounce right back up.It ain't much fun,I'll tell ya.I won't do it that way anymore as the classical hurdler's position isn't good for most folks' knees.

    Ta ching? Tan t'ien probably,depending on dialect of course.

    TC at 12 degrees?Have fun.I'll stay inside.
     
  14. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Sure, but it doesn't make it any "healthier". Why not just say easier or simpler or more accessible - that's exactly the kind of point I want to make.

    It sounds like he refers to two styles, one is referenced as "wu" the other as "hao". Without further clarification we should assume he is refering to Wu (Quan You) style on one hand and Wu-Hao style on the other as those would match the mainstream references these days. It doesn't really make sense otherwise anyway.

    Thanks for the info on Tung, interesting comments Doc.
     
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    God's Wounds,man! The comment on Yang's simplification wasn't for such as yourself,you know that stuff.

    Yeah, I agree tho'.that's why i said it was made easier as part of the popularization program.

    No,I'm pretty sure Paul meant old Wu.It makes more sense to say Hao is old Wu on steroids than Hao is new Wu on them as those two systems aren't closely related.Remember as far as the names he uses he's speaking from the perspective of a Tung practitioner and it was under the name (old) Wu that Tung received that transmission-even today the Tung family does not call what they teach to select seniors Hao,they call it Wu.Although Paul's statement still doesn't really make sense to me.Especially as the Wu in Tung's line is also referred to as "hard" TC.

    I'm not privy to it myself,but in photos of Tung,Kai-ying I've seen some of the postures seema bit more externally athletic than what we're used to seeing in Hao.

    How you been? I see you've been scarce here and spending time on an alcohol soaked forum.

    Yeah,I lurk there at times.
     
  16. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Been good mate, cheers :)

    lol @ "Gods wounds man!"

    I see now..

    you'r saying that Tungs "old Wu" is pre the influence of Hao (or is another branch not through him) and that's why they keep the reference like that? That would make sense.

    Or is it simply a matter of different labels, same thing more or less - can't say I know that much about these tcc branches. But I do find them interesting.

    I am actually seriously thinking of taking up this style some time in the new year. I'm lucky enough to have a Wu-Hao disciple in my new area, having recently moved near there. I'd be crazy to pass up the opportunity to get myself along there.

    http://www.haotaiji.com/haotaiji/

    regards
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  17. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    Day 23: In which the second set confuses me greatly.

    ... but at least I remembered Needles in the Sea! :D

    So this past Monday was a bit hectic, what with finals and projects due. *sigh* But Tai Chi helped me relax and let go.

    Paul advised us about our final... which is pretty much a 5-minute quiz and to perform just the first set for him. Sounds like a plan to me.

    We wen through the second set, but I was so far out of it that I was simply not coordinated.

    Day 24: THE LAST DAY OF CLASS!!

    That's right! Today was my last day of the semester for TC.

    But once again, my TC class started with pre-class stuff.

    See, there was this really cute Koran guy that I've been on-and-off flirting with all semester. Turns out that he's married; his wife is attending school outside of the state. :( BIG blow to my confidence.

    I got to class a few minutes early, then, and managed to catch up with the blokes of the class. I related my woes and they were sympathetic, then turned the conversation to other things of interest (like languages, sports and SQUIRREL!).

    And it dawned on me, in that moment, how close we had all become over the semester. Granted, I was a bit sad that it took so long for me to build trust with them... in my previous MA classes we were only a few weeks in and we'd all know each other by name and would joke and talk in the training hall. I think this may have something to do with the fact that:

    1. TKD and Hapkido required LOTS of mutual trust mostly because you were trusting your sparring/training partner to NOT royally injure you.
    2. In TC, we hardly ever did touching (aside from a little Push Hands).

    So this may have had something to do with it. If I had exchanged contact information then maybe I'd have extended my circle of friends. But class started and we went in.

    Paul handed us our review sheets for the final, which consisted of a few basic principles that we had been lectured on all semester. As I was reading down the list, I found myself doing a practice BaGua walk, one foot in front of the other, the other turned just slightly to turn my path into a circle. I discovered how incredibly balanced I was, when I wasn't 100% focused on my walk. When I DID consider my steps and the position of my feet, I lost balance. 'Twas quite interesting!

    We then went through the first set and the second. It was almost like a normal class; Paul acted as if we were going to meet the following Monday. He lectured us on the proper use of the kwa, silk-reeling and more. I can't remember most of it, but I remember watching myself in the mirror and marveling at how smooth I had become in both my movements and in physical appearance.

    I guess one large thing I've gathered from this class is how important it is to listen to my body. I remember I was at work last night, went up on my tippy-toes to reach something-- and immedately sank back down. I felt grinding in my ankles and knew that I was going to rip something. But because I LISTENED my ankles are perfectly fine.

    I've learned about how to utilize coiling my body to deliver more powerful, fast hits using a little bit of FaJin. I've learned so much that I can hardly write it all down in proper fashion because you'd all be here all night.

    I asked Paul if he needed my "training journal" as per the syllabus. He smiled and said, "no." He then said, "consider them your Master's Notes".

    Which.... which made me feel pretty good. Paul also said we've done an incredible amount of learning, "about 7 year's work into one semester". I know that I am nowhere near a Master's level, but the skills I've learned from TC, the healing I've done over the time spent practicing... it's all been worth it.

    Next semester, I have ONE class that goes from 8-9am. TC class starts at 9am. And thankfully, I don't have any classes until noon on those days.

    So I may stop by again. :)

    After class was over, I had a desire to go wail on the punching bag in the other room... but instead asked Paul to do Push Hands with me. "Feel my intention" was his only advice as we did push hands. "Use your waist".

    And then, we stood grinning from ear to ear, like old friends, as we did single Push Hands.
    He then stopped and grew quite serious, resumed, then stopped again.
    Up until that point, I was still trying to detect his balance and figure out how to disrupt it. But I was too slow and he figured out mine, first. "So this is the part where you push me over, right?" I asked, really feeling it in my left leg.

    He laughed and we ended.

    So I learned in class today: MANY THINGS! :hat:


    I hope y'all have enjoyed my blogginess and I hope to keep it updated now and then next semester. Adieu!
     

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