What happened to Don Roley???

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Please reality, Mar 5, 2016.

  1. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    He knows a lot but of late has been posting a lot of questionable nonsense on Youtube. His taijutsu has never been great but seems to have gotten worse since he moved back to the States. He says some odd things and has some videos with some almost racist accents in them that he tries to pass off as humor. I liked it better when he was just ****ing people off online.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6jIVgfYECE"]Knee video - YouTube[/ame]

    Really Don? You're knees don't go pass your toes like that. It's sink down and go forward, not going downwards diagonally. He should've watched the Japanese masters a bit more.
     
  2. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Myself and Don have never really seen eye to eye, but I don't quite understand your need to keep criticising people on line. As Dr Hatsumi says "If you have a problem with peoples grade or taijutsu go speak to them"
     
  3. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    I think you mean Nagato sensei but anyway. Don puts himself out there as someone who knows something(which he does) and someone with a certain set of skills that people should listen to. As such, he should meet a certain standard of taijutsu, just like anyone else out there teaching. If you are going to be making videos of your movement and it is not correct, good, effective, or realistic, you shouldn't be surprised when people bring that up. Were you trying to be ironic in your first sentence(as you are criticising someone online in your response)? You of all people should be the last to talk about criticising others online. I mean with your history and flip flopping on the Bujinkan and everything else, you spent years on MAP doing just that. As I mentioned in the OP, it is disappointing to see someone you had a certain level of respect for turning out to be less of a person worthy of emulation.

    Don is definitely knowledgeable about Japan and our arts but his taijutsu and some of the things he says and does in his videos show him in a lesser light. I personally don't have a problem with anyone's taijutsu, it is there problem. I am just pointing out some of the reasons why it is not a good model so that people might learn from other's mistakes. Same when I discussed your Hikendo videos years ago. It might seem personal to you, but that is your own ego talking. If you move like he demonstrated in his video, it is bad for your knees and does not represent what is taught in the Takamatsuden. That is the main point you should take away from the video.
     
  4. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Because it's easy behind a keyboard.

    I prefer to meet face to face.

    Through the MAP Meets for example I have a far wider group of friends, access to more training partners, instruction, support and so on.

    Every time I see a thread like this I picture a guy sat in his bedroom with internet access shouting out to his mother, "I'll be down for lunch in a minute, I just need to tell someone their technique is wrong".

    I don't really get any grief because my stuff is out there for critique and I'm not hidden behind a keyboard.

    Nothing wrong with anonymity, but I for one don't take any belief in threads like this.

    Strange how the good video thread in this forum has so few posts.

    Why don't you support each other?
     
  5. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Oh Simon, it's grandmother and basement. Please get it right. There are few good videos out there in the public realm, hence the lack of videos reposted on MAP. If you hadn't noticed however, some of the good ones were posted by this particular anonymous person who you seem to take exception with. You don't take any belief in what?

    That his taijutsu is lacking and he was demonstrating something wrongly?

    That he said some potentially racist things in some of his videos?

    That he is starting to look like Antony Cummins or The Late Scott Biao?

    One could easily ask why all the people in the JKD community don't support each other, but we already know the answers. It isn't about not supporting each other, it is about truth and reality, not egos and feelings.

     
  6. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Please Reality posted

    :rolleyes:Yes but some of us just grow up and move on, and stop worrying too much about what other people are doing.
     
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Came to say something similar. The good thread is almost empty. I've necro'd it more than once.

    Also, critiquing people who don't meet up to the standard when there doesn't seem to be a standard at all seems a bit of a moot point.
     
  8. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Glad you've grown up. Don't worry, I'm not.;)
     
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Simon, are you okay?

    You've turned a worrying shade of purple...
     
  10. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    If there wasn't a standard, there'd be nothing to critique. If you don't know what you're looking for, then you wouldn't know either way. By describing what the problems are in examples of taijutsu, those with an analytical mind can learn ways to improve their own. Those who only listen with their ego and feelings will just get them hurt. Either way it's no big deal and if anyone doesn't like the message or messenger, they don't have to read, it's no sweat of my back.
     
  11. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Please Reality posted

    Nope didn't say i'd grown up, just that I just grow up. In other words to the point where I don't see a need to criticise others.

    Do I think there are problems within the Bujinkan? Yes
    Do I think there are people that should not hold certain grades? Yes
    Do I think there are teachers that should not and cannot teach? Yes

    But then unlike you I wasn't the one to write "The more I thought about it, the more I realized that there isn't a quality control issue"

    Which I replied to back in 2011 by saying "He may do, (Hatsumi) but that does'nt take away the fact that there is a quality control issue"

    And then for the next five years you have spent the time just slagging off people whose taijutsu you believe to be poor.

    If you believe, as you posted back in 2011

    Well if you think as in 3 that the foreigners quality or lack of skill is irrelevant why have you spent 5 years talking about it. Its laughable.:bang:
     
  12. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Of course there's a quality control issue, where is it though? In the group 3 as I described the breakdown. As such, that is where one would address the issue if there is any hope of confronting the problem. However, as it doesn't concern me(as luckily I'm not in group 3 and if I was I'd do another art), I am partly writing to put good information out there about what the real arts are, and partially for entertainment(which is why anyone wastes time on things that aren't relevant to their life, just look at tv, video games, etc.). I know you think it is slagging off, but partly that is because you were one of the people being criticised. It is laughable that you have claimed to have reached some level of maturity but want to criticise RP, it is obviously still personal to you. It's not personal with me though, which is part of why I'm anonymous. If you don't like what I'm saying, you can disagree, or feel free to ignore it. If I was Joe Blow 15dan, it would be a different story. The QC in the Bujinkan thread was written partly out of boredom(week ban if I recall) and an attempt to make sense of all of the angst, discussion, and misunderstanding about the arts I hold very dear. Many people read it and commented on it, so if nothing else, hopefully it made people think and question. That is never a bad thing.

    If people concentrated on learning the arts instead of all the trappings, it would help the reputation of these arts but alas it's all a very moot topic. Those who know and can do will continue to know and be able to apply the arts, those who don't won't and the public will still have their misconceptions. The cherry blossoms will still bloom and life will go on.

    It's funny though, nobody who has responded has dealt with the video or the criticisms of the video and his channel. But I'm the one slagging people off...:rolleyes: Sure conversations morph over time, but to ignore the OP and go about one's merry way discussing everything but is the behaviour of three who turned to stone in the morning sun.



    ps-you're still criticising...:p
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
  13. garth

    garth Valued Member

    no not cricising as such, just making a point that you feel you need to critique others, usually in a negative way.

    But don't worry I've had my say in regard to this so shan't criticise :) anymore. But i'm pretty sure this thread will go on, and then you will write another, and another.
     
  14. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    And I could say I'm sure you'll get disgruntled and end up leaving the Bujinkan again but I'm actually proud of what you did, and I've stated it before. So have a good day.:) If one doesn't have thick skin, they really shouldn't get into martial arts, nor post videos online.
     
  15. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Personaly I find some of Don's more zealous posts/articles a little distasteful. However, the clip above seems OK to me

    The point he's making about the need to challenge your sources and check information that you receive back to the Japanese masters of the art makes perfect sense

    His points about the use of the knees, are in my experience, entirely consistent with how Oguri-sensei taught

    Although the point PR makes of down-then-along vs diagonal is, in my experience, consistent with the way it's taught

    There are no hard and fast rules & we have to allow for mistakes in communication &/or accept that people's execution is flawed to a greater or lesser extent
     
  16. embra

    embra Valued Member

    I am a 10th Dan Grand Soke Shihan Grand Tuhon Sifu in Keyboard-Fu. I also am a 9th Dan Grand Soke Shihan Grand Tuhon Sifu in Google-do and some other gubbinz.
     
  17. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics


    There are other clips I didn't post but referenced, guess nobody checked...

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sa-jeHO9bA"]Kuzushi - YouTube[/ame]

    Even better example, you don't pull the opponent offline like that then try to go back the other way, it won't work in real life. Kuzushi is much more subtle and effective, doesn't require an assistant to help out.

    More than the guy's structure, you don't throw like that because your arm is behind your body and you are trying to move him, it is not correct biomechanically.

    The key is from 2:11, the point he should've been making was not to try big off balancing movements like that(see, the guy can hit him at 2:16 as he goes forward), instead he demoed this mistake twice, but since his uke was compliant, he got away with it.

    There's nothing wrong with challenging sources and understanding, however you have to know what you are looking at and for, or else you will just end up repeating the same nonsense that everyone out there laughs at. There is most definitely a correct way to do most things, it should work and be efficient. If it is neither, but you need artificial crutches to make it so, it is wrong. Your knees don't always go past your toe, but they can. If you don't do it correctly though, you are better off not going that far forward in the first place. If your stance is too narrow and you are moving like a gaijin butt hobgoblin, you aren't improving(not saying he was but it is something you see a lot).
     
  18. Pankeeki

    Pankeeki Valued Member

    Seno sensei, The late Oguri sensei and Ishizuka sensei all go with their knees past their toes.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Nobody's denying that. Question is how?? What long term effects does it have if you do it wrong? Many do it incorrectly, that was the point.
     
  20. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Apologies - I only responded to the 1st video and I've not been following what Don has posted for quite a while

    So in the spirit of creating healthy discussion and hopefully learning as a result - here's my take on the clip above

    What I liked
    - Great to highlight the importance of kusushi & really liked that he equated it to breaking structure as well as balance
    - Good (albeit basic) points about taking structure/balance and not moving in a way to give their balance back again
    - Covering the groin during ganseki (many people ignore this and it's often an easy shot for uke to take if the throw is even just a little off)


    What I didn't like
    - The singular focus on uke's structure/balance as opposed to making the link to the importance of positioning yourself in a superior position/structure. Best illustrated in the set up for ganseki (see below)
    - The suggestion that taking structure/balance can't be learned from a video. I believe it can. Perhaps the finer points &/or more advanced methods require one to experience it in order to understand, but the fundamental points (which are applicable to 90% of the training population) are easily shown/explained
    - The general positioning of himself as somehow superior to other teachers in the US who are wrong/inferior


    Caveat 1: It looks like he has an injury so his height and use of knees may be affected by this

    Caveat 2: I'm no better, so I feel a bit like the spectator at the match who can't play for toffee criticising the professional players



    Observations on the Ganseki which seemed to be the central technique chosen to illustrate the lesson on kuzushi

    Image 1 - Essentially Uke's structure is superior
    Tori's right foot is not positioned to lift uke's arm and uke can easily drop their weight and wrap tori's right arm which will frustrate everything that happens next
    Tori's left arm position is inferior to uke's and doesn't have the structure to move uke's balance via his right arm (which will be needed from this kind of position if one is to do ganseki)

    Image 2 - Uke has a lot of freedom of movement & can counter easily
    Uke can release his arm easily
    Uke can move his left leg and realign his hips to his shoulder
    Tori has left his elbow behind as he steps giving an easy mushadori (there's no structure from tori to prevent uke moving in this direction)
    There's a risk of a sweep from uke as he steps

    Image 3
    Tori's placement of the right foot leaves space for uke
    Tori's covering of the groin makes sense, but the structure is very light so not sure how much it'll stop
    Good to bump uke's hips around to compliment the pressure on his shoulder
    Could be lower to have a more meaningful effect on a resisting partner, but perhaps limited from injury


    Now I'm off to check my own execution of ganseki....
     

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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016

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