What films do you reference in teaching (and why)

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Tom bayley, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award



    The power of Mount.
     
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  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Don't get me wrong, I love the arts. I'm a musician and I've been involved in theatre, I think that the arts fulfil fundamental needs in humans.

    But drama is rarely about the thing it is portraying. It is allegory mainly, however deep or shallow (see any superhero movie).

    I just don't see the value in bringing that into martial arts lessons.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I don't think I have missed your point, I meant "if it works for you" as in: "if your students benefit from it".

    I don't see that benefiting me for what, or how, I want to teach. No problem; horses for courses, swings and roundabouts and all that.
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Are you saying your marbo classes are strictly rational fact based content only, with no allegorical gubbins, at all?
     
  5. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah. I can't remember ever using allegory in class. I can't think of a reason why I would.

    Whenever possible I prefer demonstration over explanation, and experience over exposition. Language can help steer people in the right direction, but physical stuff can never be satisfactorily explained in words, IMHO. Ultimately, you get this stuff by feeling and doing, not listening.
     
  6. Travess

    Travess The Welsh MAPper Supporter

    This a sweeping statement, and one that does not account for the spectrum of 'learner types' - Agreed, feeling and doing something will better aid those students who benefit from kinesthetic learning, but for those who thrive more on either auditory, visual or written word will there will be a lag.

    Travess
     
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  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Interestingly, the "learner types" model has fallen out of favour in education. Here is a letter, signed by a number of eminent neuroscientists, explaining why they call it a "neuromyth": No evidence to back idea of learning styles | Letter

    That's not to say that I don't speak to my students, but if I want them to see something I do it, I don't explain it. Occasionally, and if feasible, I might physically guide a person's body (I've only had one student who seemed resolutely in the "visual learner" camp - but watching technique was useless for them, they had to see what it looked like from their perspective). I've yet to meet someone who learns best by reading a description in text.

    The big difference between understanding what a technique or concept should look like or be described, and how it feels to do it, is that the first two are merely signposts and the latter is actually the thing itself.
     
  8. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    the example sited is more of an academic ****ing contest than a reasoned assessment of the validity of learning styles. for example it sites left brain / right brain as a learning style. The whole left brain right brain was effectively debunked over 10 years ago. if you include debunked theorys in a survey of effectiveness of coarse you are not going to find anything.

    This kind of spat has been going on for ever - various academics trashing the opossition in an attempt to push there own ideas into the formulation of educational policy.

    There are plenty of cognitive psychology studies looking at the performance of different pathways in the mind - e.g linguistic, kinesthetics. that do show difference in outcome for different students with different pathways. Most obviously for students with a prouncedly spiky cognitive profile - dyslexic, dyspraxic, adhd etc.

    I recommend "thats the way I think" by the educational psychologist David Grant as a good overview of the subject of congative profiles and how they impact o learning.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  9. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Love this form, lots of overlap with hung gar iron wire . Its odd how similar karate and kung fu are. Anyone might think they were related ...

     
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  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Interesting that teachers are being steered away from these models as being restrictive to students' development. Could you link to some of these studies, please?

    Also, do you feel that martial arts are directly equivalent to the kind of subjects taught in schools?
     
  11. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Hung gar waxing on and waxing off at 1 min 46 seconds

     
  12. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

  13. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Learning is learning - doesn't mater what the subject is.
     
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sorry, that's not better for me. I'd rather look at the results of experiments than read a popular science book on the subject.

    I'm no expert, but as far as I've read, the only model with predictive validity is The Felder-Silverman model, and that is not delineated along visual/auditory/text/kinaesthetic lines.
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Really? So a Ph.D. is an indicator that a person will become adept at martial arts more rapidly than someone with less qualifications? :confused:
     
  16. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    It is a recommended text on post graduate coarses on learning and cognition written by a widely acknowledged expert in the field. It also happens to be well written and highly accessible to both lay and specialist readers. I really do recommend it.
     
  17. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    not so much a quote, but I often hum "on generals orders" song from all the wong fei hung movies when students are doing forms.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I read the preface and the beginning of the first chapter. I'll be honest and say that £20 is quite a punt on a book described by the author as anecdote and speculation without citations.

    I wonder when and where it was recommended reading for post-grad education courses? I live with someone who finished a post-grad education course a couple of years ago, and learning type models were thoroughly poo-poo'd in their lectures. I suppose the anecdotes would be useful to a prospective SENCo.

    Here is a summary of common criticisms:

    Learning styles and pedagogy in post-16 learning: a systematic and critical review | VOCEDplus, the international tertiary education and research database
     
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    USED (8) FROM £4.63

    Just saying......
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's a 12 year old edition. There are no used copies of the 2017 edition, and a whole chapter has been added since then.

    Regardless, I asked for studies and experiments, and this contains none, not even citations. I'm not sure why I would buy it.
     

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