Raquel Pennington's corner is being criticized for sending her out for round 5 when she wanted to quit, told them I'm done after round 4 and I must say I agree. When a fighter says im done, that's the end of it. There was no point in sending out for more punishment. Raquel is a tough girl, it was like Roberto Duran saying No Mas. I wish her well. Id like to see Raquel fight Marion, maybe a rematch with Cat Zingano. She has given us some memorable fights, always brings it, she just didn't bring anything Amanda hasn't seen before. She will bounce back. She is a warrior.
I think the choice to continue should only be taken out of the hands of the fighter when they are taking a pummelling and are too tough/stubborn/prideful/driven to throw it in. Not the reverse.
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When a fighter is done, the corner should listen. Psychologically, she was defeated. I didn't watch the fight but no one I have read thought she had a chance to win based on her performance either. She should fire her corner, they caused her to take more severe damage than she needed to when the outcome wasn't going to change. Especially since she isn't known as a fighter to give up easily. I like Pennington, I was rooting for her, but she was outmatched. She isn't a championship level fighter - at least not at that time. It was a bad match up to start with.
Ali was done in first fight with Liston Moorer was done against Holyfield Their corners took them to world titles those nights There are manynother examples but the crux is that a good trainer knows when you SAY you are done or when you actually ARE done...its a fine line
Maybe that's a stupid question, but: Can't the fighters just give up, if they think it's too much? Like tapping out and it's over? Letting aside Hannibals point, which I like btw (I noticed myself several times that my teacher knew better what I could or could not do; even though it wasn't during a fight), I still am wondering, if it could be a good thing, if a fighter himself/ herself can't stop a fight?
I'm inclined to agree with Miesha Tate on this one. Morning Report: Miesha Tate says Raquel Pennington’s corner allowed her to lose ‘with dignity’ "She went out on her shield."
They can. But good luck dealing with the backlash by fans and the media if they do. Roberto Duran carried "no mas" for the rest of his life IIRC.
You can quit whenever you want to, and various fighters have quit between rounds. Usually they won't because you get branded a coward by people who've never fought in their life, but some fighters have done it okay. Chris Leben quit between rounds in his retirement fight for the ufc and not many people gave him stick for it because he'd proven himself a tough dude over the years. Rory Macdonald basically quit after he got beaten up for ages by Robbie Lawler then just dropped at a glancing jab and clearly mentally packed it in, but hasn't got much flack for it. Throwing in the towel by a corner during a fight is actually a foul, but given that fouls result in DQs its kind of a moot point. As for the fight, I think she was clearly done. Corners are meant to push you, but not when you're clearly outclassed, been beaten up for 20 minutes and have barely even a punchers chance of winning. If it was a close fight and she just needed some support to give one more round and win, then alright, but this fight was, in my view, a disgusting display from the corner. I don't rate many corners in the UFC highly at all anyway, but she needs to find a new one. Sending a fighter with multiple fractures and clearly mentally defeated back out to get more brain damage isn't protecting your fighter, it's abandoning the trust they place in you to have their best interests at heart. As per usual, facebook has been amazing with the comments over it about how fighters should never quit and all the other stigma crap that needs to die. Weirdly, all the people I've seen thus far saying the macho crap don't appear to have ever fought, while the people who have done are pretty much unanimous in saying her corner failed her.
Thanks for the answers. I was afraid for a moment, they scrapped the possibility to quit for the fighters themselves.
I also read a comment somewhere where her corner basically said "go and give it your all". After 20 minutes of fighting that's the only technical advice her corner could give?! As you say a high number of MMA corners a terrible. They splash water, rub some ice, give vague cookie cutter advice (head movement, use your jab, be first, give your all etc) and that's that.
Lucky to get even that advice half the time. A lot of it is just cheerleading "you got this" "go out there and take it" and all that useless jazz. A lot of lying too like telling fighters they're two rounds up when they're clearly not so then they coast the third and lose, or they just do the same thing that's losing them the fight.. He seems to have lost a lot of fighters but Greg Jackson is still the best by far. Calm, clear, honest, good advice, never sounded like he was rushing to pack it all into the minute. So many fighters look like they could be so much better if they had a better coach instead of being loyal to where they came up from. Pennington is a decent example of that actually. Ever since TUF she's had fights where she looks like she has the potential to be something more, but it just never quite comes out of her. It might have been too long for her to fix that now, but she's had some great flashes in her career. Maybe she never could have beaten Nunes, but I think she could have been more had she looked elsewhere for a coach.
I think it's Jackson/Wink or maybe Henry Hooft in a corner where each person has a job? First man in calms the fighter and deals with the mindset while other are cooling them. Then water. Second man in gives pertinent technical striking advice (positive and negative if needed). Third man gives pertinent grappling advice (likewise). More water and then some parting good generic advice that informs the next round (you need this round, you're down 2 rounds, need a KO). So even if the tech advice doesn't sink in there's a solid gameplan for the round as a whole. Most corners don't seem to follow that set up. It's just a mish-mash of ice, water, shouting and platitudes.
I know Raquel was coming off a long layoff but was this the same Pennington who took Holly Holm to a split decision and dominated Meisha Tate? If so then Amanda has stepped up to a another level and she was already high level to begin with. Its not the first time Amanda has made a good fighter look bad but in this fight we saw a more methodical more technical Nunes. She didn't come out guns blazing, she methodically picked Rocky to pieces.
You have a point there. Fighters have otten better or worse after switching camps. Amanda switched camps after the Zingano fight. She said MMA Masters had her training right up to the day of the fight so she gassed out. She hasn't lost a fight since she switched over to Top Team. I could post several examples of fighters going downhill after changing camps too.
