What do you think of this karate review?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by tooksomechin_na, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Indeed. He probably went to a sub par McDojo. My dojo is a member of the international ****o-ryu federation, and rank earned is recognized all over the world (so his comment about a BB being valuable only within dojo walls is very ignorant).
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually you will find it is probably recognised only within other ****o-Ryu schools - although in pedantic terms this is technically outside the "walls" of the dojo, the spirit of the comment is that the grade is only a measure that has value within the org

    A karate BB has little to no meaning in MMA, none in boxing, none in Judo. A Judo BB affords you naught in TKD.

    Belts are (Mcdojo belt factories aside) a measure of technical proficiency within a given style - nothing more
    Dead_pool likes this.
  3. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks. :hat:
  4. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    You missed the part where he pointed to this kind of comment as being typical of the reaction people have when you leave karate. 'Oh, he must have trained at a McDojo because my Sensei spars with the Archangel Michael on his rest days'. You're guilty of one of the offences he calls out the community on even as you slam him.
    You don't really believe that, do you? The variance in quality between clubs in the same federation is absolutely massive. And, quite frankly, the bigger the association the spottier the quality. (Yeah, I'm looking at you, JKA). Just because you can go to another club in the same association and wear your belt means nothing about how good you are.
  5. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    He practiced Karate for a long time, so he clearly got something out of the training or he wouldn't have continued for so long. It's all too easy to only remember the bad stuff once you leave karate (because you're trying to justify a major decision) and forget that you had fun whilst you were doing it.
  6. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    You should read his "5 reasons to quit Karate" page. That's quite entertaining. He basically says "Karate is crap for your health because you get knocked around all the time and can get knocked out lots". Oh, and "makiwara is like punching a brick wall to improve concentration". Then he goes on to say that "it's a cult", "there's hero worship", "being an adult and a parent stops you training properly if you want respect", "people drop out because they have priorities as they get older" and "there are better fitness routines out there".

    ...we need a face palm gif here really, don't we?

    The sad thing is that there's a lot of criticisms that have some validity with a lot of dojos. The thing about a BB only being valid within the dojo you got it does ring unfortunately true of a lot of clubs out there. The local club to me (for example) has no problems promoting guys to get their BB because they've been there for "X time", even though many of them cannot perform the techniques properly. And you do get a shocking number of guys who get their BB's who can be argued don't deserve it. That's before you get to the arguments about whether your BB in one style of karate can be used in another karate dojo (for example).
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  7. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    To be honest, the black belt being only valid in your own org, I would say is completely true of pretty much all martial arts. I don't know if it's a criticism though. I don't know that it's supposed to be universally valid.
  8. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    It's pretty simple really, just look at what he actually says, bearing in mind when he says "karate" he actually means "shotokan-style."

    1. Shotokan-style karate doesn't teach you how to fight.
    Well, no, it doesn't. It teaches you how to spar within its ruleset, as does everything else. BJJ doesn't teach you how to punch and boxing doesn't teach you how to use a knife. Unless this is misrepresented there's no problem.

    2. You're not allowed to do anything except Shotokan.
    This may have been the case in his dojo but it's demonstrably not true elsewhere.

    3. Shotokan breeds discipline.
    Again, the shoddy practices mentioned are observed within his dojo.

    4.Shotokan-style lacks real world application.
    Yes it does, and so do all arts to a greater or lesser degree. Again, misrepresentation is the point.

    5. No can defence
    This is just a confused hotchpotch of nonsense.
    The first two paragraphs say nothing other than "movie fu don't work."

    Eventually we learn that karate is not unstoppable. Is that news to anyone here? Any karateka taught that by their sensei?

    Then the last two paragraphs invalidate all forms of training because you can only be a fighter if you're born that way or train in a hardcore military environment.

    It's an article that glibly repeats accepted cliches without actually thinking about them, without discussing the reality of what karate is, what fighting is, what training is, or even acknowledging the practices of dojos outside the one he encountered other than by damning without actual experience of them or martial arts in general.

    All IMO of course, and just based on that article :)

  9. tooksomechin_na

    tooksomechin_na Valued Member

    Hmm, if you thought that was bad, take a look at this article


    Take point number #4 about asteroids. The atmosphere only burns up meteors of fist size and smaller! The reason you can see all the craters on the moon is because it has no vegetation, and no wind and water to erode, or obscure them. Big huge events like the Dino-killer asteroid come on long timescales, whereas humans civilization has been around for less than ten thousand, we just haven't experienced a big one yet.

    The part about flying cars is interesting, but most likely cars will be FLY-by WIRE, meaning you won't actually fly it, it will be guided by GPS satelittes.

    People mention the problem about falling out of the air. Well, pilots already have deal with this with planes and helicopters. It would just be a larger scale. Things could mitigate the problem, perhaps solve it, by having a system which automatically lands the vehicle if there is a problem, or if that can't be done a parachute for the plane, while it's falling and tough balloons on the outside, like what cushioned Carrie-Anne Moss's vehicle in Red Planet

    He really thinks we're TOTALLY alone in the universe. Actually, there are quite a few planets, if you read Michio Kaku's book, which could potentially be earth like. Kaku doesn't include how many might have a moon though. You need one to keep the planet stable and not wobbling. The number of Earth like planets is estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands, and we've already found some potential candidates, like in the Gliese 581 system 20 (or 40) light years away.
  10. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Dude, are you him? You've posted his article, people have made points and maybe will continue to do so, but this stuff is largely unrelated to a MA board.

    People can make a MA judgement based on his MA comments. Beyond that we're just giving him publicity.

  11. tooksomechin_na

    tooksomechin_na Valued Member

  12. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I actually think that article was fairly sensible. Besides the safety problems involved in flying cars, there's also the energy problem of just powering the damn thing. Even fist sized asteroids would be incredibly deadly to a moon base and, like he said, there's just not that much to do on the moon.

    With regard to intelligent, alien civilizations, I think that he's probably on the money. Even if we have hundreds of thousands of earth like planets, we've only had one organism evolve the intelligence necessary to travel into space and send out signals or satellites. There's no reason to suspect that this is inevitable, or that evolution would naturally progress in that direction. Further, we've only had these abilities for the past hundred years or so and we've already come quite close to wiping ourselves out.


    These are good resources.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  13. tooksomechin_na

    tooksomechin_na Valued Member

  14. tooksomechin_na

    tooksomechin_na Valued Member

    So, you'd have to go another 5 years to get another black belt, even if the dojo/gym you are transferring to is the same art you already have a black belt in? And, perhaps the reason you are switching has nothing to do with the quality of the instruction/training, but like one reason he gave, they expect you not to have a life outside the dojo. I wonder if part of it is monetarily motivated, another 5 years of classes will certainly fill your sensei's pocket for quite a while.

    Actually, I couldn't agree more. In a real fight someone is certainly not going to stand there and let you hit/use your techniques on him, and this is very good advice, however, I do think you first need to practice "dead" as he puts it, to actually learn how to properly apply the technique, then practice alive.

    There are some problems I can see with karate kind of already. Take for example one of the first things they teach you- the horse stance. Stand with your knees bent, giving you some stability. Um, how I gonna maintain this stance while I'm moving? Pretty slowly, so it makes you pretty rigid, not only that, it's quite tiring to stand in.

    Keep your fists by your side? You never see that in an MMA/UFC fight. They should be up in front of your face to defend yourself.

    If you read some of the comments he has studied at multiple gyms/dojo's, and mentions one of his teachers by name. 15 years of study and winning a few tournaments has to count for something, doesn't it?
  15. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    For the record, it helps if when you quote someone, you attribute it to that person so that they know who you're talking to.

    Sure. Why do I care what color belt I'm wearing? I know my skills and I recognize where I have weaknesses and what I want to work on. I have several black belts that I bought from Brooks Brothers. The difference between my belts and my skill is that I can take my belts off.

    I'm going to be paying for martial arts classes until my body gives out and I can't take classes anymore. I'm not planning on stopping payment once I get my black belt.

    I've found good results from practicing both simultaneously. Yes, initially your live sparring will be uncoordinated, but I think that live training adds as much to drilling as drilling does to live training. I forget who it was, but someone in another thread discussed how differently they approached padwork after starting to spar, and I think that's a good example. As long as you can train in a way that does not diminish either your own or your partner's future training, you should be engaging in some form of live training (imo).

    Yeah, well, that's some forms of karate and, even in my no contact karate days, they said that these were not how you would actually fight, but drills meant to instill certain qualities much as a speed bag is used in modern boxing. The problem was the complete absence of live training, not the use of things like the horse stance to build up muscles. Yes, there's probably a more effective way of building lower body strength (SQUATS), but I think that particular criticism is ill founded - like criticizing boxing because they wouldn't have gloves in da street.
  16. tooksomechin_na

    tooksomechin_na Valued Member

    hmm, can't delete my post?
  17. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    In my experience , you'd inform your new instructor of your grade and let them decide what belt you wear , many will ask you to where a white belt until they're
    happy that you you come up to their standards.
    Different art , where a white belt and crack on.
  18. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Most people with a good amount of sparring practice are probably going to jump on this and point out that hitting pads is not the same as wailing on someone when sparring.

    I'm not knocking pad work though, I personally feel pads are some of the best supplementary training tools you can use for your training.

    To be honest I'm sure there are dojos out there with a cult like mentality and they are usually worth staying away from. But the majority of dojos/dojangs/gyms/similar things out there are not like that.

    Minor points aside though, most people who turn up to train are there for the training and not for the belts, the belts are usually just icing on the cake of good training. So the time frame is irrelevant, as is the belt you wear (usually). If the class is bad you'll probably leave earlier. If the class is good then you probably won't care about being there for 5 years.

    Bolded as it was the most relevant point. That's kinda the point of the posture. It does wonders for developing good flexibility, thigh strength, mental focus and so forth. As for moving quickly, it's not one of the faster postures but I know from experience I can move faster in "horse stance" than a lot of guys with my level of training can in more conventional stances.

    There's also large discussions about the purposes of stances - things like they may not be "fighting stances" so much as "mobile postures" that you drop in and out of as you need it but not to fight from, that as you get more advanced the postures become more natural but have to start somewhere, etc.


    To be fair it's not ideal in an environment when you can pretty much guarantee fists and maybe even feet are going to come flying at your face. But most karate dojos will be quite to point on when you're sparring that your hands shouldn't be chambered. As to why people do it...the reasons vary massively. There's a thread about "chambered hands" somewhere on here that has a few pages on why the chamber might be there.

    Yes and no. Credit to him for winning tournaments and training for 15 years. But time spent training doesn't always translate to improving a depth of understanding. Winning tournaments are fine, but what format, which organisations, what kind of quality of opponents was the author facing, etc?

    I don't doubt the author's experience or the passion that she/he used to have to stick out something the author now seems to hate for 15 years. Just the linear single-minded focus of the way the arguments are constructed.

    Had I read this a year ago I would have been somewhat skeptical. But since I've changed karate dojos and taken up kickboxing on the side, even I have to admit my makiwara and heavy bag work has changed massively for the better. The type of impact, the breathing, foot work, movement, it's all changing a lot compared to before. Live training really does make a massive difference.

    I still suck at bag work mind, but one day I'll get better :)

    You've got a point to be fair, but I find that the wider stances are deceptively good at developing leg strength and improving flexibility in the hips, especially for people who have mobility issues.

    Why do you want to? :dunno:
  19. ArthurKing

    ArthurKing Valued Member

    tooksomechin_na, you are exceedingly ignorant about karate. That's ok, lots of people are, there's a lot of crap karate/kung fu etc classes around. What is your martial arts background, there's no info in your profile apart from your gender?
    Take a look at some of the Karate articles and previous posts, take a look online at people like Iain Abernethy, Geoff Thompson, Gavin Mulholland, Terry Oneill etc etc.

    Come back when you're a bit more clued up, then maybe we can discuss stuff from a position of knowledge.

  20. tooksomechin_na

    tooksomechin_na Valued Member

    Well, the point of it was to get reviews of it as I didn't want WASTE time and effort studying it if it's not effective. Yes, I don't know a whole lot about it, that's was kinda the point of my post, to get feedback from people who do know. I mean, just imagine how it would feel to study something for a decade and a half to find out it doesn't work/was BS, THAT'S what I'm trying to avoid. I want to study a martial art that actually does work for self-defense. I didn't say a lot about it, profess to know really anything except the horse stance. I took just a few classes, when I was like 5, didn't stay in it (maybe just 2 or 3 classes)

    Other than that I took some chin_na wit Dr Yang-Jwing Ming, like 8 classes, hence my name.

    Most of people apparently didn't read any of the comments below his article where he did get slammed, which brought up most of the things in the thread here, and were just "oh, he's stupid, don't listen to him" ad-hominem attacks. His teacher not crappy, it was not a McDojo, etc, or that it's not karate they are using in MMA/UFC.

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