i just read that the grip was made with sting ray skin. is that true? I suppose it was talking about the little white diamond shapes under the black stuff, in the horribly steriotypicall katanas that you see, but whats the black stuff then?
Very true indeed! Rayskin provides a leather type comfy grip! They also use shark skin aswell! Comes in white or black strips! The actual blades can be made of different metals! But properly tempered and folded blades with a traditional hamon (Blade pattern) are made from Carbon Steel!! Stainless steel can be folded also to create a good sharpness! But nothing compared to edge created with Carbon Steel! Hope this helps.
Ummmm, Chojin, you've kind of scratched the surface, and kind of erred on a few points. Tobanaman, I'm by no means a Japanese blade historian, so there are a million technical names I don't know off the top of my head, but in layman's terms, yes the traditional handle wrapping is first a layer of ray skin (yes, which that white bumpy plastic is supposed to emulate), and then I think a silk ribbon that is wrapped and folded around it, leaving the diamond patterns of ray skin visible. Ray skin (and shark skin) has a tooth to it, similar to the way a Cat's tongue feels, so a traditional handle has a lot of "bite" to your hand, and is kind of like nature's grip tape. As far as the blade, Chojin is on the right path, but I'll clarify a little. Carbon is what makes Iron turn into Steel, so saying "Carbon Steel" is kind of like saying "redundant redundant repetitive too, also". Carbon is what allows the Iron to be hardened. Too little carbon, it won't harden worth a damn, too much and it can be quite brittle. Stainless steel is an entirely different issue, it still has carbon, it can have a little, it can have a lot, but the carbon content has *NOTHING* to do with the problems of stainless. The problem with stainless is inherent to the *OTHER* materials that make Stainless steel, well, stain-less. I'm not recalling the Alloy mix right now, but I beleive it is the Zinc and Chromium that make this particular steel not harden very well (i.e. lose an edge very quickly, too soft), and another problem related to brittleness (trying to harden it too much will just make it fail under stress) At any rate, somewhere in the knife and sword selling business, wary consumers knew full well that Stainless knives tend to dull quickly, and some monkey thought he could add the words "high carbon" into the "Stainless Steel" sentence, to convince people that this was some other miracle metal. Well, there's 440-A, 440-B, and 440-C Stainless steel alloys. 440-C being the most common, and the softest, hearing the phrase "high carbon stainless" *MAY* mean that you are getting a slightly better 440-B alloy, or not, and if you hear the phrase "carbon stainless", well, now you know that's like saying "liquid soda for sale". At any rate, moving on.... Stainless makes lousy blades, avoid it. Now, as far as what to do now that you've settled on a non-stainless steel, now you need a steel that can harden well. Go for something that has a .50% carbon percentage (often described as '50 points') or better in the Alloy. 1050, 1060, 5150, A1, O1 are all decent alloys of steel, and can give you the hardening characteristics a good blade should have. Next comes the forging. A competent smith will make the blade properly, there are many different methods of constructing a traditional Katana, go do some homework and learn what to look for. Folding the steel is but one small aspect of the process. As for the hamon, that is an area along the edge whereby a clay is a pllied to behave like a heat sink, and as the blade is hardened, you get a harder edge, a clean line of distinction, and then a softer spine to withstand the rigors of swordplay. As the blade is polished, this hamon will appear as a silver cloud on an otherwise mirror finish. Well, that was the simple overview, and as you can tell, simple it ain't... Good luck, don't be afraid to do some research, and go find yourself a blade to love.... I would highly recommend picking up a copy of Jim Hrisoulas' "Forging your Way to Perfection", as well as go find the dedicatory web pages of Bob Egnath (Engath?). Bob's passed away, but his knowledge was immense, and his articles are posted in a few places. Matthew
um ditto to most of what was said how ever i must disagree on the opion of stainless steel. yes most of is pretty darn worthless for holding an edge, but 440-c holds a nice edge if heat treated properly, and is in fact some times refreed to as a stain resistant tool steel, its not stain less it will rust. its 440-A and B you ahve to watch out for. I've owned 2 buck knives and buck knives were and I think still are made from 440-c, I broke after really really abusing it and the other is still around and rather sharp and holds its edge well. And edge retention isnt always important some tiems being able to mak eit sharp easily is moreso. Would stainless make a good sword blade...probably not, its grain structure doesnt form in such a way to be able to take the stresses inherent in a longer blade. And its mostly Chromium thats makes stainless stainless in large amounts like 10% in smaller amounts its actually improves to grain structure making it finer and threby less brittle.
And if you wonder what authentic real, historic katanas were made of, I'm told that due to the composition the iron ores in Japan, the katanas made from the scarce iron deposits of japan cotains some phosphor-that tends to make the metal somewhat more brittle as the continental blades. That's why the japaneese swords have a history for beeing somewhat stiff, compared to Chineese/european swords. (I'm not trying to say that katanas are crap, here, just poining out why katanas are quite thick and stiff. That's allso why you never see techniques where katanawielders bang their blades together the same violent way as you might find in european fighting manuals; they could very easy snap!).
The 'black stuff' is called a tsuka-ito, its a long cord wraped around the tsuka (handle) to create the diamond pattern. Usually its made out of silk, but cotton and leather is often used as well. This is for all intensive purposes the grip, the ray skin is what keeps the tsuka-ito in place. Rayskin alone would tear your hands up in short order. if you are still curious about the katanas composition check out swordforum.com. There are reams of information aalready available.
Waxing Metallurgic for a minute... Just out of curiosity's sake, I went and grabbed the stats on the 440 family of steels: 440-A Carbon: 0.6 - 0.75% Chromium: 16 - 18 Iron: Balance Manganese: 1 max Molybdenum: 0.75 max Phosphorus: 0.04 max Silicon: 1 max Sulphur: 0.03 max Max Hardness: RC 56 440-B Carbon: 0.75 - 0.95% Chromium: same Iron: same Manganese: same Molybdenum: same Phosphorus: same Silicon: same Sulphur: same Max Hardness: RC 58 440-C Carbon: 0.95 - 1.2% Chromium: same Iron: same Manganese: same Molybdenum: same Phosphorus: same Silicon: same Sulphur: same Max Hardness: RC 60 As you can see, the only difference is in the Carbon content. Cudgel was correct in that the 440-C can hold an edge better, as it is the most hardenable of the 440's. I had heard that the 440-B was the best for making swords from, and this would still hold true. 'Por quoi?' you may ask? A sword has far greater need for durability and flexibility than a knife. Knives are very rarely engaged in high velocity maneuvers, and they are usually small enough that flexibility isn't too much of an issue. A sword on the other hand needs a certain amount of "spring" to withstand the rigors of smashing into flesh and bone at high speeds, with a longer surface being stressed. A knife also needs to provide a fairly clean incision. Swords tend to have a broader bevel in the final grind than a knife does. It's scalpel vs. cleaver. Knives, with the smaller bevel, are usually hardened to a higher level than swords are, the finer edge needs the hardness to keep its shape and compensate for thinner material. On the Rockwell C scale, figure 55-65. Swords, however, usually get hardened in the 51-55 range to give them a little more spring. Another piece of information from the forging community, usually you're needing a steel with at least 50 points (or .50%) of Carbon to get a decent hardening out of your steel (RC 50+). .60% to .80% is preferred, giving you a really good ability to provide a differential temper (think harder edge, more flexible spine). However, beyond .85% or so, the amount of Carbon ceases to effect the behavior of the steel very much, and once you get to 1.00%, it rapidly *DETERIORATES* the usability of the alloy, as it becomes too brittle to withstand the abuse. So, with that all being said, the 440-C has perhaps too much Carbon to withstand the abuses inherent to swordplay, potentially being too brittle, and the 440-B, while being softer, and more likely to lose it's edge sooner, is a more flexible Alloy, and better suited for swords among the Stainless variety of steels. But I still prefer my 5160.... Regards, Matthew "Too much spare time" Kelty
You know until you said that an i read it again i didnt realise he'd actually meant the wrapping! Lol! When he said diamonds i assumed he meant the texture of the ray/sharkskin! Close up it has little 'nobbly' type bits on which i assumed was the area of interest!
for sure 5160 makes great sowrds so Ive heard. Another downside to stainless steels is they have a much higher metling and forging heat and are harder to forge. And if you want to ake a bladd out of a Titanium alloy you might as well use an aluminum alloy. the temps required to work titaniu7m are much mch higher than steel and it is more reactive to atmospheric contaniments than steel. IN addtion, as far I know there is no way to reat titanium alloies to give it the many wonderful properties that makes steel a good metal for swords. And its lighter than steel, which is bad. Ian "has no life" Woolley
duh ... the best swords are made from the underbelly scales of Titanium Dragon , a Daedric Heart , a Grand Soul Gem with a Golden Saint inside , a pint of Genki's blood , and the Necronomicon . All this new fangled science stuff is for the gullable people who war think war is out dated and only causes suffering and economic drain . this Guy appperently knew what was up ... sad though .. he could have just volunteered to clean the mats BackFistMonkey
while we are at it lets use a part of the Ture Cross to make the hilt and scabard and quench it in the blood of virgins.
Titanium Alloys do not harden. While Titanium is useful as a replacement for Steel in certain applications, it is due to it's Tensile Strength:Weight Ratio. Like Aluminium, it requires more physical mass to do the same job, but the larger mass is less dense, and weighs less. So, you could have a Katana that has the same physical size, but would weigh significantly less, and have a soft edge that is easily bent, or you could make it thicker, and have a very dull stick with which to hit people. BTW, in case you've never seen this, it's a classic example of a 440-C Katana and it's usefulness... http://www.atar.com/sword.mpa Also, do yourself the favor and crawl around Jim's site. He is "the man" who wrote the book(s) on forging blades: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...-3067162?index=books&field-keywords=Hrisoulas Cheers, Matthew
Thanks for all the help , I'm not exactly sure as to why is said "horribly steriotypical"..maybe i said it to make myself sound smart like "maybe this denotes me knowing that katanas have other styled handles" or I dont know, but totally, quenching in blood and using the bodies of your defeted as the charcoal to heat up the metal, and hammering with uuuh...a.really...scary hammer?
