Hi guys, I was watching the movie Fearless last night and a question popped up into my brain. At the start during the competition between the four fighters, we have what appears to be a British military sergeant who ends up fighting Jet Li with a spear. Can anyone shed some light on this? Movies aren't always accurate, but even I would wonder why they would throw in something so seemingly ridiculous as a spearfighter from 20th century Britain. I have heard there were still weapon based competitions in Europe during this time, with weapons such as the quarterstaff being used, but I'm really wondering where the military connections comes in.......
It's a movie, nothing to do with history. The closest at that period would be bayonet drill. The Bear.
British Army at Aldershot Hi Benkei... Here's a pic of the British Army at Aldershot early 1900's, training/sparring with quaterstaff - possibly used to develop bayonet/rifle-butt skills. They also practiced singlestick both of these arts were gradually phased out of the army after WWI although the Royal Navy continued with singlesticks until WWII. Louie
These pics look more like someones hobby at Aldershot that actually training. I think we need to be care not to read too much into the photo. I doubt this was part of serious training of soldiers. The Bear.
Hi Bear... Training with big sticks WAS practiced in the British army into the 1900's and it was serious enough that soldiers performed full-contact matches during military displays.... More details can be found in "A Grand Assault-at-Arms" Tournaments and Combative Exhibitions in Victorian England by Tony Wolf http://ejmas.com/jmanly/jmanlyframe.htm Louie
Hi Louie, I think we have to consider context. Sporting elements have always been a large part of military life. I think parallels could be drawn with modern military tattoos and inter-service sporting events for public display. However they aren't viewed as a part of actual combat training more character building and team building exercises. The Bear.
Well it could have had some combative element for those who still carried a lance but I get your point.... Getting back to benkei's question - Staff training was a 'combative sport' used as part of British army training in the 1900's and Jet Li could have fought his British army opponent if he was indeed a lancer!!!!!! Louie
Hmm there is a thought, did the British Army trained lancers in fighting on foot, since lancers were cavalry? Against firearm I doubt they would have been of much use. The Bear.
CHARGING ON FOOT WITH THE LANCE: BRITISH TRAINED BENGAL LANCERS ATTACK GERMAN TRENCHES.—From the Painting by R. Caton Woodville. "Cavalry engaged in the Belgian frontier battles are fighting in all sorts of ways: repeatedly, for example, as infantrymen in the trenches. On occasion, also, they have even charged on foot, with bayonet or with their lances. The Life Guards, according to a letter from the front, charged the German trenches the other day with bayonets. A squadron of French dragoons dismounted and crept through a wood on foot, surprising a German infantry company and overpowering them in close-quarter fight with lances and clubbed carbines With lances, also, as our illustration shows, some of our Bengal cavalry, in action on foot, on October 24, at Ramscapelle, near the Yser, recaptured the village from the Germans. Dismounting near by, they charged the enemy lance in hand, driving him from his trenches. Following up their success, they then forced their way into the village, smashing in doors and windows and storming house after house in spite of fierce resistance until, assisted by other troops, they forced the enemy out, capturing guns and many prisoners. The action was particularly notable." THE ILLUSTRATED WAR NEWS, NOV. 18, 1914. Louie
Good find Louie certainly lends weight to the lance theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancer This wikipedia article gives a little more info. So even as late as 1928 it seems as there was a few lancers kicking about. The Bear.
When I was in basic we used to run about with 14lb 6ft ash poles to substitute for the weight of a SLR. We also did guard duty on low alert states with pick axe handles, I got in the slippey brown stuff for asking the orderly orifice (a WO2) What the correct method of saluting a commissioned officer was with one.
Allso; wasn't re-enactment beeing popular around1900 in europe? I've heard that the reason why our sport is only 10 years old and not 100 years old, is that most of the people starting to research old manuals around 1900 died in WW1?
The lancer is actually refered to as Royal knights head coach Hans. Now I could be wrong but Hans doesn't sound very british. Seems more Prussian to me. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9iJFxijyY0&feature=related"]YouTube[/ame]
am starting to think 'german' is less a race and more a state of mind. Before I took up german longsword I had never tried german beer, gone to Czechoslovakia, listened to rammstein (german industrial metal band) or habitually placed a towel on the seat of my choice to reserve it. I also revel in shouting german commands at my class (in a very dodgy accent). with the bear cub getting his first lesson in german longsword yesterday ... lets see if anything germanic starts to appear in his psych. If he suddenly takes a liking to Rammstein, leather shorts, beer and booking holidays in poland or the Ardennes ... I think I may have some validation/proof of my theory.
Ah, I am proud to note that the Bear cub started his first lesson in true Bear family tradition, namely whacking the Rabid Hamster on the hand with a sword. Bring a tear to my eye to see the wee man taking after his paw. The Bear.
if mrs bear makes a move towards me with a Jiàn, I will be assuming the Bear family have declared war on me** and there... will... be... trouble! ** like they haven't already!
