How many of you think that western style fencing i.e epee and sabre is superior in techniques to that of eastern style fencing such as kendo. The principals of western fencing i.e. parries and thrusts must be quicker to that of jap. fencing which is slashes. How many western style fencer and kenjitsukas gone toe to toe and who came up on tops.
They are very different and not even comparable, western fencing nowadays is designed to only to fight western fencing afaik.
exactly, eastern fencers don't train to fight agaisnt japs, and vice versa. But, if u were to have an eastern fencer to train against a Japanese fencer, and a japanese fencer to train against an easter fencer.....well, eastern fencers emphasize in thrusts and parrys right????and in a Kendoka emphasizes in slashes, but can use thrusts as well. An eastern fencer holds the sword with one hand, and a kendoka uses two hands, The ef has more speed and control, the kendoka, has more power and range. but personally, i think the kendoka would win, in either scenario
Western fencing is the effete cousin of Rennesiance Italian swordplay, and while it's very effective its focus on rules and artistry prevent it from being truly as effective as it could be. The medieval and Rennesiance European swordstyles are superior in terms of effectiveness to modern fencing, and easily a match for any Eastern style of swordplay. Look at any clips of SCA fighting for examples, most of the rattan weapons they use are made to be very similar in weight, balance, and size as the historical standard, and they use period styles. Most practitioners of Western swordplay are superior to their eastern counterparts because they spar constantly. Notable excepts are kendoka and eskrimadors who spar in the same manner, so it's difficult to weigh the techniques against an exponent of say, Taijijian because so few people are spar anymore with jians that there are few skilled combatants. Someone pointed this website out on this forum before, but I think I should give it another link: www.rsw.com.hk Look at some of their videos, it's very interesting to see what they have to say and see these things in action. Also, if you can find any clips of the American SCA wars, like the Estrella War, you can often see the techniques used there.
I believe western is tops I believe that wester fencing may have evolved to become superior. Because in ancient times in wester europe the standard sword was the broad sword which was a slashing sword. The came along the romans who brought in the short stabbing sword. Then it went back to broad just because the roman tactics were basically that of formation fighting as possible to single person heroics. The swords became lighter and faster with the introduction of the rapier. The wester sabre which was borrowed from eastern design was a slashing sword but was meant to be used from horse back. If you have a look as western history its basically on big blood bath, therefore, sword fighting would have evolved. Where the Japs. have had much more an isolated history and therefore their fighting / fencing tactics where adopted to fight each other and therefore less open for new concepts.
Ehhh no, western fencing nowadays had "evolved" to become almost totally ineffective in a real situation, they use very thin swords, and fence to very strict rules. Whereas Japanese sword arts are still deadly and effective... I think you have it a bit mixed up...
Here is a thread from Weapons about Fencing vs Kenjutsu that may be appropriate: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22243
Well since you've picked up the pom pom's you are now the official Western Fencing Cheerleader! Give me an F Give me an E Give me an N Give me an C Give me an I ... bwhahahhahahhaha! GIVE ME A BREAK! :bang: Not only is your arguement for western fencing supposed superiority as full of holes as swiss cheese - you offer up no solid evidence that this is the case. Your grasp of history seems a tad lacking mate. Your generalization that Western history was bloody and therefore they advanced more as swordfighters is interesting - but I am hardly convinced. Was China a sanitary society with no wars or bloodshed? Did the Khmer Empire rise and fall through lost games of Scrabble?!? Did Ghengis Khan take over as much as he did by challenging other countries and cultures to tiddleywinks? Was fuedal era Japan a sanitized culture where one showed dominance by playing scissors, paper, rock?!? I think you need to do some reading. Your command of history and how warfare has shaped martial arts and it's weapons is severly lacking.
Most of the fencing you see is based on the rapier. There is saber fencing wich uses more chops and slashes. If you want to compare fencing styles you need to compare like weapons such as compareing saber to katana or dao and rapier to jian/gim. I don't believe the style matters much, when you fight it comes down to how good your mechanics are, how sharp your reflexes are, your timing and how good your strategy is. There was an experienced fencer in one of the schools I trained at once and he brought his gear in a few times and we went at it a bit. When we went by fencing rules he kicked my but but when we went freestyle and I started useing jian techniques I kicked his. He wasn't used to recognising the edges of the blade as a weapon so he would only attack with the tip and he wasn't used do moving at much of an angle becuase fencing is pretty linear. His techniqes were all good and well timed but his strategy was all based on his sport and he wasn't ready to fight freestyle.
slipthejab you have a whole heap of anger bottled up... I think I rrarely see you post if it's not aggressively...
Richdog ahh shucksy wucksy.. Did you get your little sensiblities offended? Give me a break. I think the post is predicated on nonsense. I call's 'em as I see's em. You don't like what I post.. don't read it. or I may be forced to put you on my list of people that I have to accomodate with all kinds of lovey dovey smiley faces... :love: :love: :love: and my finger get's tired hittin' that button. Feel better?
Nope I dont get offended over the internet, it was just an observation. To which you over-reacted. But don't take it personally...
Okay looks like I'll have to put my theory to the test!!! Looks like I'm gonna have to put my theory to the test. I'm gonna brush up on my fencing techniques and go toe to toe with a dude from a kendo school out here. I'm Scottish I'm gonna choose the 17th cent. Jacobite scottish basket hilt sword. I'll report back with my findings.
Erm no. For one a katana is nearly as long as a typical rapier and a skilled user could beat away a rapier effortlessly and hack the westerner to pieces. People debate who would win, a knight or a samurai but if they both were out of their armours etc, the samurai. Katanas were designed to be fast and deadly and the moors and easterners prooved to be superior swordsmen when squared off against templars in armour. Its a matter of insuffienct blade design and so on. A katana is as long as a rapier just about but is handled with both hands so its weight is of no consequence. Also the flowing way a lot of sword work was designed by the apanese and so on means the rapier/sabre would probably loose. In the end a skilled user of either could defeat the either but I would think that a katana would win
I could take any of the kuk sool blackbelts at my school in a purely sword match easily. As for which style is superior, I don't really know enough about eastern sword work to say. I do, however, know that sport fencing is much different than the type of things they used to do with mideivil swords. There were joint locks, etc. worked into their techniques.
