We're the Problem

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by OwlMAtt, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Originally Posted by ANGELSGYMSINGH View Post
    ... It takes money and who you know to get into the society and be recognized by the group...
    I honestly don't think we need anything of your post beyond this.
    But at least society considers it a bonefiable document of study and once completed, one can actualy earn a good living
  2. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I think that makes it worse...
  3. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    I freely admit that I know nothing about his abilities. But his abilities aren't really the point. If he's luring students by telling stories about himself, then those stories had better be true; otherwise he's a liar, no matter how good he is. Since there has never been any evidence that his stories are true, most of the martial arts world has (reasonably) concluded that he is a liar.

    Is it possible that we're wrong? Is it possible that Dux is a ninjutusu master/underground fighting champion/government super-agent? Yes, it's possible, in the same way that Russell's teapot is possible. But in the absence of any evidence whatsoever, it sure doesn't seem very likely.

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    Hey Zaad... you can goggle search me.... master gurjot singh, internal boxing, western tai chi chuan..... A lot of stuff to read... lol... no dissertations for undergrad work... sorry bro.... I have published in political science in a Yale Article and an Infantry Magazine article I did for my grad school work in International Relations and Education...

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    US Martial Arts Hall of Fame 2013 Seminar Video link


    I need to make a change to my post concerning the name of one of the Inductee stars who gave a seminar in MMA techniques... Retired UFC Fighter Nate Quarry is the name. The vids show the Grand Council Members who are surprisingly diverse of discipline and martial-cultural lineage and it highlights some prominent adepts in Krav Magra and Jeet Kun Do. As an attendee I was also impressed with the quite competency of the teachers and attendees. There were some braggarts there but they were ignored as true adepts shared their understanding fighting in their respective disciplines. Mike Goldberg was introduced by Nate Quarry as the Man of the Year by the organization for his ambassador work between competitive fighters and the traditional training organizations, kwoons, gyms and dojos that most of us train in.

    About people saying another is lying because they are not aware of an event, training or feat that another claims to have done. The claim was leveled at me once in my military days... I was in 4th Psyops under 1st SOCOM in the 1980's. I found it necessary in the late 90's to explain why I was qualified to access Ranger Training in courses involving Survival, Escape, Resistance and Evasion (S.E.R.E.). I told them that I was a graduate of the S.E.R.E. Instructor and Anti-Terrorist Courses. Because the course was not continued after 1990 and it was only available to very High-Risk operatives and it was before this persons time and because he was never in Special Ops communities... I was accused of lying... Of course he was wrong and embarrassed... mostly he just could not believe I could have such credentials based on his own limited experience which he thought was vast. I learned from this event that it costs me nothing to take a person at his word and to test him out only in the sincere pursuit of gaining knowledge from him or her. I can honestly say that if anyone had any other purpose to test another's abilities at this convention they would be embarrassed to shame by the ass whuppin they would receive.... I don't think Master Dux reputation alone could have gotten through a convention without challenge or intellectual engagement if he was incompetent... a lot of war vets were present at my ceremony to include a friend and fellow Ranger and MACV vet Ted Molina who was also there for Dux Induction....

    I am very proud to be recognized by this organization after having met the people involved. Like me many are seasoned warriors dedicated to perfecting their disciplines because they view the practice of martial arts as transformative in the sense of mental, physical and spiritual development. I was very surprised but honored that these men of competence also found an interest in my work especially in the Sports Psychology take on applied Taoist and Vedic Yoga in Internal Boxing. The one thing I noticed immediately was that most of these guys possessed the three treasures..... meaning they practiced micro/macrocosmic orbit meditation. Very cool stuff.... So in reflection I guess I can say that although there are probably people that may not be as good as they say they are in the organization, most of the members are competent at what they do and with few acceptations if they are inductees then I believe they are legit.... This would include Master Dux because I believe that if he were not what he claimed to be he would not be included as a member given his prominence and controversy in the Martial Arts community. So yes I believe him because he is an Inductee.... and because I have heard no convincing proof that he is anything but what he says he is...
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  6. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Mr Singh, what are you a master of?

    Have you tried Googling for info on these so-called masters? Quite a few have been 'discussed' at length.
  7. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    So let's recap.

    Frank Dux tells wild stories about training under a ninja master no one has ever heard of, about dominating a fighting tournament no one has ever heard of, and about performing feats of heroism on military intelligence operations no one has ever heard of. He has never provided a shred of evidence for any of it.

    ANGELSGYMSINGH believes these stories, even in the face of challenges to their veracity by the Los Angeles Times and the US government, because Dux seems to be a nice guy, because Dux appears to have martial arts skills, and because Dux has a spot -- for which he paid -- in a hall of fame that doesn't have a hall and isn't particularly famous.
  8. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Have you even looked?

    Like I said even a quick google will dig up some stuff.





    Then of course if you look at the footage of him you will see a number of discrepancies when compared to arts that are from the same time frame and culture that Dux claims his training to be from.

    To be honest if you are familiar with classical Japnese arts you can see from the start why people raise their eyebrows at Dux and his claims.
  9. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    this is exactly why my kids are starting in judo at 4, then hopefully wrestling in their school.

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    To answer the research question. I have done some research a while ago but found nothing that stands out in memory. But I have learned some lessons concerning judging competence by comparing it to my own abilities. If I do such things and rush to judgment I may lose out on learning something valuable and new....

    Grandmaster and Dr. Gary Stier has given me awesome inspiration, professional tips and even gave me some fundamental books on the subject of Internal Boxing. I never got the chance to meet with this adept but did not doubt his prowess because I had no reason to do so even though I had seen a video of his form work. From the video I am not impressed with that performance but that does not mean that he is not a master to most who train under him. When I gave up my business I kinda let the man down in getting him seminar work in my communities and I am regret that because his involvement in my learning curve is significant. Another case is Grandmaster Sheum, the Wu Taiji Quan and Eagle Claw adept's student, Sifu is Donald Walth. I was never in the way of thinking that this man could best my fighting skills or internal skills in any way but held that ego in check... I knew that he had great knowledge that I needed in the effort to refine and cultivate my internal boxing skills. I never wanted to fight this master to see if I was correct but unfortunately it did happen as he challenged me to test himself. If that had not happened I would have trained under him longer as he has excellent weapons form knowledge. The point is that I kinda see challenging, without provocation due to immediate safety or health concerns, other martial artists as a weakness on my part due to a lack of confidence. I am also very sensitive about coming off as a hater or self-labling legitimacy police... I mean everyone has a right to an opinion on a forum but a public one makes me tread lightly because I am not famous but my work is known in many circles. So for me there is a professional courtesy issue that I will not break. There is also my personal spiritual practices that have me presently acting on Metta Meditation affirmations which are positive in orientation.... That might skew my perception of people and reviews of them to a fault... but I try not to promote myself if it means defaming another even if it may be deserving... in such cases silence is a better response....

    Now about what I am a master in... lol.. Scott... these days I don't feel like a master of much... Every day I seem to find the term solvent only in the context of relevance to other adepts. In my research, teaching and personal training I always keep finding out things I do not know, have not trained and need a lot of improvement in.... Yoga Asanas, External Alchemy usage, The Confounding Round applications of Wu Mengxia's annotations of Yang Family Taiji Quan.

    I guess to answer this question with credibility others would have to vouch for my competence. Now retired, I am honored and confident to say that the US Army would consider me a Master of training in Ranger Operations at the tactical level of conventional and special ops missions up to 2001. For civilian recognition of my skills I would have to direct you to organizations that recognize my past achievements. As a former owner of Angel's Gym where I trained city, state and regional amateur and professional fighters who were Champs the USAABA, IKF, NAGA, EFC, CFP and Gameness MMA Promotions would call me a master trainer of Boxing, Kickboxing and MMA Striking. The American Tai Chi and Qigong Association consider me a professional Tai Chi and Chi Kung instructor and endorsed my book in a public review. The book is sold in the UK. The World Martial Arts College, International and US Council of Martial Artists and Grand Masters consider me a demonstrated Master of Internal Boxing. The YMCA of Greater Des Moines considers me a master trainer in fitness with specifics in Yoga, Kickboxing, Cycling and Tai Chi Chuan.

    All of this stuff has brought me to begin a terminal degree of Education in the field of Applied Sports Psychology. I am learning to develop a more user friendly curriculum that integrates Taoist and Vedic breathing regimens to help Martial Science practitioners to master Stilling and Moving meditation.

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    Hey.. I read about the LA Times story... both sides... the reported was caught in a lie and was sued.... He submitted false documents... Master Dux won that case...
  12. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    World Martial Arts College?

    International and US Council of Martial Artists and Grand Masters?

    Never heard of them. Are they an authority?
  13. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    ANGELSGYMSINGH, You've spent an awful lot of time in here talking about yourself. Why? Do you think that you will win us over to your side of the Frank Dux debate by listing your credentials? Your credentials are irrelevant. Frank Dux tells wild stories that have never been substantiated by evidence: you can't make that go away with your credentials.
  14. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Do you have any demo videos of yourself and your style?

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    And about my competence in Japanese martial arts.... I am not a scholar of much in that area... I have been studying Mushashi's work for decades and the philosophys are mentioned and quoted in my book but that is all... for all I know you may be right.... I guess all I can comment on is him as a person and not an artist. Still by this standard I have sen nothing definitive as to him not being what he says he is. I understand that his physical technique may be different than traditional methods of execution... but does that make him incompetent? From where I come from that is a reach....

    That being said I respect why you all have doubts... I can offer that he is not hard to reach... He has a facebook.... He is also very open to discussion and I have even heard of him visiting people and/or inviting them to visit him to train together... You all should look him up.... Now if one of those people ever said he had issues I would listen...
  16. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    Won, like in court? I'd like to see the source for that information.
  17. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter


  18. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Like I said it was just a quick Google in part to show what is out there because your reasoning for believing him seemed flawed, however saying that why is it still out there? I would imagine a retraction would have been printed or it removed.

    Regardless of the article everything else still stands and as I said if you actually know what you are looking at then you would at least appreciate why people are sceptical, as it is I think your ignorance is getting in the way.
  19. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    With you talking about yourself continually, listing how great you or others think you are...

    Are you, in fact, Frank Dux?

    ANGELSGYMSINGH Valued Member

    To 1000's of members from all aspects and levels of martial science ... yes... The WMAC has even been reviewed and sanctioned by Blackbelt Magazine December 2012 or 11 I believe... It is a facebook link so I can not post it here.... sorry

    Now that being said I have a friend from the UK who is well known in Internal Boxing. His name is Sifu Damo Mitchell, the Author of Hevenly Streams and Daoist Qigong.... He did a review of my work on Amazon... please look it up and get one of his books or both... the man is a prodigy... well spoken and documented in traditional taiji, bagua and xing yi in publication and video... he does seminars in the UK, Sweden, China and the US... I am sure he could give a comment or two concerning my competency....
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013

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