Were martial arts ever banned in feudal Japan?

Discussion in 'Discussions on Language, History & Culture' started by hardball, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Patiently waiting

    People desire to have the "underdog" tale of people less fortunate rising up. This way, a forceful, mean ol government can be blamed and then crushed
     
  2. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    As I recall the only thing MacArthur didn't ban was Karate.

    oh yeah-Hardball, gunpowder- invented in the 800s.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  3. Trewornan

    Trewornan Valued Member

    But the cannon - invented around 1320.
     
  4. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Rather earlier than that. They had already found there way into western use at Crecy by 1346. It's believed that hand cannon were used in 1260 at the Battle of Ain Jalut. I think the first documented use of gunpowder powered weapons in battle was 1132 in China.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  5. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    Then why does so much of the kobudo focus on converted agricultural weapons? If there wasn't a ban you would expect it to focus on purpose built weapons vs. ad hoc weapons, I believe I have rarely seen spear and sword in demos, but very very rarely.
     
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Possibly because they were cheap and readily available as opposed to commissioning a swordsmith to forge you a katana. Significantly the "agricultural" weapons (and some of these have a dubious provenance in that regard) are also found across countries where such "bans" were NOT rumored to have occured - probably for the same reason I postulate above
     
  7. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Hannibal is pretty much on the money with this.

    There's also the class element involved both in terms of who would have access to different weapon types, and who would be expected to be able to turn anything to hand to a weapon, plus who would have the time (and energy) to train.

    There's no suggestion that Okinawan martial artists from the 19th century like Matsumura and Azato, both known for their swordsmanship, had no swords.
     
  8. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Shiisha-jutsu Expert

    Karate is not nearly that ancient compared to the likes of jujutsu (18th century versus 16th). Swords were outlawed in Japan during the Meiji Period which began around 1900 (late 1800s/early 1900s). Gun powder was created by the Chinese around the 9th century BCE. It was introduced to Japan in the 16th century.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  9. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    European firearms were introduced about then but gun powder had been around for a while.

    Also grappling like arts are mentioned in the likes of the Kojiki which dates back to about the 8th century, IIRC.

    I'll see if I can dig out one of my books.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  10. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    In English medieval armies the infantry were frequently equipped with bills, an unmodified agricultural tool.
     
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    And we still see plenty of tools in the weapon arts today....
     
  12. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    State sources
     
  13. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I'd need time to list them all, but for a brief bibliography of some of the relevant material you could try reading Cook's Shotokan Karate: A Precise History, or reading any of the history/provenance/application threads on Iain Abernethy's forum for lists of sources and evidence.

    I'm sure I read something that was going through classes in Okinawa and training within the last week but I can't recall whether it was here or on IA's forum.
     
  14. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  15. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    It's a little known fact that these men were often called Ben. :Angel:
     
  16. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    So was my dog.





    :eek:





    :D
     
  17. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    So that's my Uke sorted out for June then....
     
  18. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    You'll have a job, he's been dead for years.
     
  19. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    At the risk of incurring the wrath of JWT again , the ban was more about banning anything that might militarise the Japanese public again , so stuff that could be called a sport , judo , kendo etc were fine , karate then done its best to promote itself as a sport , and we ended up where we are today ..........
     
  20. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Right. Thanks.

    Good short explanation here.

    http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_1202.htm



    And boys,best big hound I ever had was named Ben.
     

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