Welcome to the KUK SOOL OLYMPICS

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Hyeongsa, May 11, 2010.

  1. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Yep limited. How many of the 52 years does the BB promotions list currently show? Not very many...is the list even complete? Perhaps, perhaps not.

    As for including the "guppies," if people are so adamant about including everyone under Master level too...I say the "guppies" also fall into that category...do they not?

    Instead of using percentages or ratios as a representative way of illustration, Hyeongsa wanted to name names! Ok...I'm fine with that too. As long as he does too...and I'd like him to start with naming every single white and yellow belt that left. LOL. :rolleyes:
     
  2. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Nope, they do not. Asked and answered in my post pertaining to high school dropouts.

    I'm also talking only of current membership, not the past 52 years inclusive. FWIW



    The agreed criteria was to use the WKSA website, despite the fact that it may contain errors. :bang:
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2010
  3. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    The Winter Olympics have the same Charter and method of inclusion/exclusion as the Summer Games. I'll name another Summer event with massive worldwide appeal...but has not made the Olympic Games as a participating event but exists within the IOC roster: chess. Yes, chess. You want a lesser know event? How about scouting (orienteering)? Most people will ask, "what the heck is Orienteering?" And yet it is on the IOC roster.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2010
  4. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Nope, guppies are still members of a school. They aren't dropouts. If they quit, that is another story. But the fact that they still practice means they're in.

    As for the WKSA website...I proposed it as a good criteria, not you.
     
  5. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Damn! You can be so obstinate (as well as deliberately obtuse - LOL). I never said that guppies were *dropouts*.

    I pointed you to a reference I made which MENTIONED high school dropouts. Loyalty is one of the things which is usually built only after much time is factored into the equation. 20+ years as opposed to less than five makes a difference to me, even if it doesn't to you.



    WRONG!

    Lest you forget, you proposed using the Masters' Page. I'm the one who suggested using the BB promotion lists.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2010
  6. Brian R. VanCis

    Brian R. VanCis Valued Member


    The fact is they already have a Korean art ie: Tae Kwon Do! They will not be interested in another Korean martial art. No more likely they will go with some thing that has huge world wide appeal like MMA.
     
  7. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    LOL Now THAT is good point VM! I live in a country which once won an Olympic Gold in curling and I still have no real understanding of how the sport works!:eek:

    Hmmm not sure I can agree with that. basebal certainly is played in many countries, but it seems to me, mainly by US personel. Again to me the rules of the game are a complete mystery:rolleyes:


    Actually the 52 year history was part of my point which you seem to have missed. I was pointing out that the real membership (which in my personal view is the number of ACTIVE members) of the WKSA is actually much smaller than the WKSA propaganda, to use one of your own terms, implies. Sure they don't actually claim that the 1.3m are active members, but that is what most average people would assume, and they certainly don't give any indication that they are not. And the only way they can claim to have the 3rd largest MA in the world is by comparing their 52 year membership (which may well be totally accurate) with other MA's membership. But considering that most MA's only count their active (signed up or renewed in the current year) members, it is no way a fair comparison.
    I personally think that this obsession that KSN has with trying to become the worlds largest MA is quite sad. I don't actually mind being part of a "small" MA group. It feels kinda special!
     
  8. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    I don't know about in other countries but, in Britain at least, Scouting is completely different to Orienteering. Scouting is, to all intents and purposes, non-competitive, and includes a whole host of individual activities ranging from: camping out, fire-lighting, knot tying, crossing rivers, map reading and compass work, etc. Orienteering is a competitive sport, that caters for all levels, and age groups. It involves map reading, compass work, decision-making, and moving between checkpoints (running usually) as quickly as one can.

    I would think that most people in the UK at least would know what Orienteering is. It is hoped that this year (2010) up to 40 nations will compete in the World Orienteering Championships. Baseball, by comparison is played in the US, Canada and Japan and... erm??? Well yes, I suppose that some girls play Rounders in the UK too, if you want to include the UK :evil:

    And Chess, like Darts and Snooker, etc., although recognised by various Sports Bodies don't really satisfy my idea of what a sport is. They're recreational pastimes, no more, no less — regardless of how competitive they might be. What next... Fly swatting?
     
  9. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    How about huntin' shootin' 'n' fishin'?:evil:
     
  10. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    You talk of loyalty...lol. :rolleyes:

    And we go back to my statement that BB promotion list is limited. NEWSFLASH, the WKSA is atleast 50 years old and just because you want to limit it to 3 years shows only that you want to skew things. Tell me, which is more likely to be accurate? A page of 55 Masters names and photos or a random listing of promotions of hundreds and hundreds of people which may or may not even be complete?

    I agree that MMA has a better worldwide appeal. But the argument that just because one country already has a sport represented (TKD) does not mean it can't have another. In fact, the NORM is that a select FEW countries have dominating roles and effectively choose ALL the sports for inclusion. And you will be surprised to note that not all sports are credited to country of origin.

    Think of Karate...you would think this would be sponsored and be thought of as a JAPANESE sport. But would it surprise you if I told you that the actual IOC sponsor and HQ is SPAIN?
     
  11. Demdike

    Demdike Banned Banned

    Come on Kiwest.
    Its ROUNDERS under another name. You know - the game the girlies played at school while you wer playing cricket?
    Of course the Americans claim to have invented it - but the only difference is the men play it (not the girls) while the only female involvement is in cheerleading at half time.
    Of course the men have to camp it up: the wicketkeeper chap (the catcher? ) has to wear all kinds of protective gear. You'll never see one of our girls wearing that!
     
  12. Demdike

    Demdike Banned Banned

    Apparently Scouts in the US are now able to get a badge in online computer games proficiency
     
  13. Demdike

    Demdike Banned Banned

    thats almost a nordic triathlon
     
  14. Demdike

    Demdike Banned Banned

    darts & snooker... you may as well have competitive beer drinking
     
  15. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    The point is: if Chess and Orienteering can make the Olympic Summer Games roster, so can Kuk Sool Won or any other MA for that matter. What remains to be seen is if they can actually make an appearance as atleast a demo sport in an Official Games or if they would be relegated to a lesser-known IOC sponsored Games.

    My suspicion is that KSW stands a good chance of making roster but stands almost no chance of garnering the 2/3 majority votes needed to demo the art in an Official Games.
     
  16. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    For once I think most of us agree with you VM. Lets quit while we're ahead!:cool:
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2010
  17. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    LOL...rest assured, the anti-WKSA propaganda will rear its ugly ahead again. It's the norm here on MAP.

    Do I think the WKSA has their own propaganda? Yep. But that doesn't mean every thread should bash them. While certainly, some very talent Masters have left, some very talented Masters have stayed.

    In regards to the topic of why only Kuk Sool Won is mentioned and not the non-Won schools....I suspect that it has to do with National Charter. Like them or not, the WKSA has connections with governing bodies that can nominate them to the fold. This is a fair way of doing things logistically. But not everyone will come out clean. Look at how WTF enforces a kukkiwon rank to be eligible for Olympic inclusion for Korean athletes!

    If, say, KS of California wanted in...I would expect them to go through the same evaluation process. They would need to get US Olympic Committee approval or an executive letter from the Obama administration! I'm not saying that bribes and scandals do not go on behind closed doors in the USOC or that the Obama administration is without faults...rather, my point is that there is an established protocol to follow to elevate a sport for inclusion into the Games.

    If WKSA is willing to follow the rules, only they should be included.
     
  18. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    I know little of how other MAs conduct their business VM..I am usually too busy teaching and training!
    But I AM interested, so tell me, is it possible for TKD practitioners to access a kukkiwon rank through any other body apart from the WTF registered schools? And are you allowed to belong to the WTF at the same time as another TKD organisation (the ITF springs to mind) And are ranks from any other TKD groups recognised by the WTF?
    If not, then it is indeed a similar situation, although from a quick scan of the WTF website it seems that their org is different from the WKSA in that it is run by elected officials rather than owned by a single family. Although, how free, fair and frequent these elections are I do not know!
     
  19. Demdike

    Demdike Banned Banned

    rather begs the question though:
    "Is Kuk Sool a sport"?
    Or is it even distinctive enough to be regarded as a sport in its own right and simply not a ******* variant of Hapkido?
    Now I'm not trying to reopen that argument - but rather simply pointing out that if the martial artists themselves can't agree, what chance has the IOC?
     
  20. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    The WTF is simply a international federation that governs who can and who cannot compete in TKD in the Olympic Games. As such, think of them as a bureacratic body that sets the rules.

    One of the rules for all TKD athletes competing for Korea is that all of them must hold atleast a 1st dahn ranking, in good standing that is verifiable, with Kukkiwon to be eligible for recognition by the WTF and hence eligible to compete in the Olympic Games. So...do people all think great things about Kukkiwon? Is it corrupt? Is it fair? Lots of accusations have been flying around. But the fact remains, to compete in TKD, you need Kukkiwon rank.

    Similarly, if a bureacratic federation is formed and decrees that an active, valid WKSA rank is needed to compete...that is protocol. So how do you get recognition from an international federation? Through your country's official olympic committee or through your country's executive branch (that is why I mentioned either a USOC or Obama administration approval would be needed for an organization like KS of California).

    Further undercutting the issue is if IHS has influence on the bureacratic federation itself! This occurred within TKD. The head of WTF, the bureacratic federation AND IOC vice president was the SAME person! Effectively, one person decided who could compete and who couldn't. If a similar situation arises where IHS is nominated to a federated position....I don't see him granting approval in WKSA rank to non-WKSA folks without someone above his head authorizing it.
     

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