If it's a martial arts olympics encompassing various styles then it makes sense that they're going to compete against each other. Does anyone know whether it will solely be traditional martial arts or will sporting MAs be allowed to enter. What i don't understand is how this is going to take place i.e. in a forms competition who will be judging, how can you quantify a kuk sool hyung against a karate kata when the principles behind each are different. Alternatively if it's going to be a pure fighting competition which gives no bias to any style whilst fulfilling the necessity of athlete safety then it'll just end up as MMA.
I think you will find that KSW will be a separate event, probably just forms. I did have an email about it from HQ but I think I deleted it some time ago.
But no doubt there are other 'Olympic' events out there as well. In the words of Demdike, it sounds like a load of 'Bollocks' to me!
I don't think that this is the event that was being referred to. I believe that the IOC have actually sanctioned a separate "official" MA olympics as opposed to a regular tournament open to everyone and that there is to be a separate event for Kuk Sool Won. That is what we were led to believe anyway.... But I could be wrong...
the event posted in that link is nothing to do with the martial arts olympics being set up. this is an event sanctioned by the international olympics commite, and will be run under there guidence and there rules, and is a seperate event to the summer and winter olympics (as i have allready stated, obviously some poeple still scim read). and as per allready established olympic events, you will have to belong to a officially recorgnised governing body to take part, like the wtf in the summer games (no itf allowed), and that is what is being sorted out now by the various goverments. btw, this has been passed on to me via a korean goverment official, who visited the euro comp last year, and there will be a more official vist this year with the kbc in tow. so it looks pretty defernate to me. as for events, i expect it to be very seperate, for example, in gymnastics, a multi disapline event, you don't cmpeate p-bars against floor. it's floor against floor, p-bars against p-bars, ect. i imagine the same will apply to this.
Are you sure that you're not talking about the SportAccord (formerly AGFIS) event coming up later this year? http://www.agfisonline.com/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,5148-197860-215083-nav-list,00.html
13 Sports will be showcased in the Combat Games. All 13 sports are officially recognised by SportAccord. They enjoy a long history, established competition rules, approved safety measures, wide practice and large fan base. Aikido - International Aikido Federation (IAF) Aikido is a Japanese martial art developed by Morihei Ueshiba as a synthesis of his martial studies, philosophy, and religious beliefs. Aikido is often translated as 'the Way of unifying life energy' or as 'the Way of harmonious spirit.' Ueshiba's goal was to create an art that practitioners could use to defend themselves while also protecting their attacker from injury. Aikido is performed by blending with the motion of the attacker and redirecting the force of the attack rather than opposing it head-on. This requires very little physical energy, as the aikidōka 'leads' the attacker's momentum using entering and turning movements. The techniques are completed with various throws or joint locks. Aikido can be categorized under the general umbrella of grappling arts. Boxing - International Boxing Association (AIBA) Boxing is a combat sport played by two opponents of a similar build and ability who fight against each other using their fists which are covered by gloves. Boxing is supervised by a referee and is broken down into rounds. Victory is achieved if the opponent is knocked down and unable to get up before the referee counts to ten seconds, this is known as a Knockout. If the fight is not stopped before an agreed number of rounds, a winner is determined either by the referee's decision or by judges' scorecards. There are numerous variations and styles of boxing practiced around the world each having rules which are slightly different. Judo - International Judo Federation (IJF) Judo meaning 'gentle way” is a modern combat sport that originated in Japan. Its most prominent feature is its competitive element, where the object is to throw one's opponent to the ground, immobilize or otherwise subdue one's opponent or force an opponent to submit by joint locking the elbow or by applying a choke. Ju-Jitsu - International Ju Jitsu Federation (JJIF) Ju-Jitsu is a generic term for an almost indefinable system of fighting, primarily unarmed, but in some instance using weapons. Ju-Jitsu Techniques are including of punching, kicking, striking, throwing, holding, locking, choking and tying as well as the use of certain weapons. Ju-Jitsu does not rely on brute strength but upon skill and finesse. It is the use of minimum effort to achieve maximum effect. Applying this principle enables anyone, regardless of physique or stature, to control and release their energy to its greatest potential. Karate - World Karate Federation (WKF) Karate or karate-do is a martial art developed in the Ryukyu Islands from indigenous fighting methods and Chinese kenp. It is primarily a striking art using punching, kicking, knee and elbow strikes and open-handed techniques such as knife-hands and ridge-hands. Grappling, locks, restraints, throws, and vital point strikes are taught in some styles. Kendo - International Kendo Federation (FIK) Kendo, meaning 'Way of the Sword', is a modern Japanese martial art of sword-fighting based on traditional Japanese swordsmanship, or Kenjutsu. Kendo is a physically and mentally challenging activity that combines strong martial arts values with sport-like physical elements. Kendōka use a shout, or kiai, to express their fighting spirit when striking. Additionally, kendōka execute fumikomi-ashi, an action similar to a stamp of the front foot, when making a strike. Kickboxing - World Association of Kickboxing Organizations (WAKO) Kickboxing refers to the sport of using martial-arts-style kicks and boxing-style punches to defeat an opponent in a similar way to that of standard boxing. Kickboxing is both practiced as a full-contact sport, practiced in a boxing ring and as a more light version sport, practiced on tatami. The disciplines in the ring sport are: Fullcontact, Low-Kick and K1-Rules and disciplines in tatami sport are Semicontact, Lightcontact, Kick-Light and Musical Forms. Protection in the contact sports: mouth-guard, hand-wraps, boxing gloves, groin-guard, shin-pads, kick-boots, and helmet. The uniforms are various depends on the discipline, from silk pants or wearing shorts or uniform including belts. All disciplines are very entertaining and popular and attract youth and women all over the world. Muaythai - International Federation of Muaythai Amateur (IFMA) Muaythai or Thai Boxing is a form of hard martial art. Today Muaythai uses kicks and punches in a ring with gloves similar to those used in western boxing. Muaythai is referred to as 'The Art of the Eight Limbs', as the hands; shins, elbows, and knees are all used extensively. Also the opponent can strike at eight points of contact. Muay Thai is a variation of Muay Boran which translates to 'Ancient Boxing', Its form is efficient as it maximizes the amount of damage that each blow can inflict. Sambo - International Federation of Amateur Sambo (FIAS) Sambo is a relatively modern martial art, combat sport and self-defense system developed in the Soviet Union. The word Sambo is an acronym meaning 'self-defense without weapons' in Russian. Sambo has its roots in Japanese judo and traditional folk styles of wrestling such as Armenian Koch, Georgian Chidaoba, Moldovan Trîntǎ, Tatar Köräş, Uzbek Kurash, Mongolian Khapsagay and Azerbaijani Gulesh. Sumo - International Sumo Federation (IFS) Sumo wrestling is a contact sport that originated in Japan, this the only country where it is practice professionally, it is veiwed as a modern martial art. The wrestlers attempt to force another wrestler out of a circular ring (dohyo) or to touch the ground with any part of the body other than the sole of the feet. The wrestlers engage in tradional rituals which include, such as the use of salt for purification and the wrestler mostly live in communal settings known in Japanesse as the Heya where all aspect of there daily live from meals to dressing are dictated by strict tradition. Taekwondo - World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) Taekwondo is a Korean martial art. Taekwondo is loosely translated as 'the way of the foot and fist' but some translate it as, 'the art of kicking and punching,' Taekwondo's popularity is a result of evolution of martial arts. It combines combat techniques, self-defence, sport, exercise, meditation and philosophy. Modern Taekwondo tends to emphasize control and self-defence. The art in general emphasizes kicks thrown from a mobile stance, employing the leg's greater reach and power (compared to the arm). Taekwondo training generally includes a system of blocks, kicks, punches, and open-handed strikes and may also include various take-downs or sweeps, throws, and joint locks. Wrestling - International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles (FILA) Wrestling is the act of physical interaction using strength between two people. Each person attempts to gain an advantage over, or control of, the other. Physical techniques used in wrestling are clinching, holding and locking. Wrestlers try and Avoid techniques likely to cause injury. Many styles of wrestling are known all over the world and have long histories. Wrestling has been made into various forms used for both sport and entertainment purposes. Wushu - International Wushu Federation (IWUF) Wushu, also known as modern wushu or contemporary wushu, can be classed as an exhibition and a full-contact sport. Modern wushu is composed of two disciplines: taolu and sanda. Taolu is a combination of gymnastics and martial arts. Competitors are judged and given points on their movements which include stances, kicks, punches, balances, jumps, sweeps and throws. Competitive forms have time limits that can range from 1 minute, 20 seconds for the some external styles to over five minutes for internal styles. Modern wushu competitors are increasingly training in aerial techniques such as 540 and 720 degree jumps and kicks to add more difficulty and style to their forms. Sanda is a modern fighting method and sport much like kickboxing or Muay Thai, but includes many more grappling techniques.
If the IOC were involved in this it would be documented somewhere I've just searched the official IOC site and theres not a reference to the works "kuk" or "ssol" either together or singly. Given that, I find the whole concept unlikely. Given that so far NO-ONE has actually posted any proof that this happening - all we have are second or third-hand repeats of possible rumours - I simply don't believe it. Its either 1) just pure speculation 2) misrepresentation by someone, possibly deliberate, probably accidental.
KSW has hemorrhaged too many schools and too many masters recently for this eventuality to be likely. KS, not to mention KSW, is too small to be an Olympic event.
Hemmorrhaged? Sounds like propaganda to me from someone non-Won. When someone uses that word, it envisions a massive loss....something to the effect of 70-80%! Even conservatively, I'd say as low as 50% could be thought of as a hemorrhage. LOL. The true fact is: WKSA has had roughly 100 Masters in the US and Korea combined. As people leave, others who put in the time promote. Even after a so-called "hemorrhage" due to the franchising...how many Masters are still Won? Something like 92 or 93 with a bunch due to be promoted soon in the European Championships. So when all is said and done, it looks like a net loss of only about 1 or 2 master-ranked folks. And when you consider that it takes roughly 20-25 years for most people to reach that rank, a net loss of 1 or 2 is not too bad. But I suppose in a anti-WKSA forum, a 1 or 2% net loss is an hemorrhage. As for Olympic protocol, it seems people have no clue the steps it takes for a sport to be recognized. This has all been discussed before. It's interesting how non-Won folks are twisting things to distort established protocol. Remember, nothing becomes IOC-affiliated overnight. The IOC has a revolving and evolving sport policy where they evaluate old and new sports for inclusion/exclusion all the time. Separate search committees are tasked to put together a proposal....which may or may not eventually pass IOC muster. The International Martial Arts Committee is one such active body that is not IOC....but reports to them. The only established truth right now is that the IOC has shortlisted a number of sports and a Martial Art is on that list. Which MA will be eventually make the cut to demonstration level is still atleast a decade away. At the heart of many sports that do make the Olympic Games...there must be a supporting government. This is large hurdle for most sports....as getting a National stamp of approval is not a small matter. This is where Won products have an advantage in the IOC bidding process over non-Won folks.
i agree 100% VM. only problem is your not looking at the masters that left, but how many that left. typical WKSA for you though: don't look at whats leaving, look at the number that left. Byung In Lee, Eung Ko Lee, Michael & Kaori Nebgen, Frank and Paul Garza, Jan Butler, Diamato, and various 4th dahns (though apprently, their not important) and well over 50 Masters (by Kuk Sa Nim's own admission) in Korea. well, it is typical propaganda. though nothings being twisted: their just simple facts. and if you look (in total) the number of amazing masters that DID leave the WKSA such as In Sun Suh, Soon Tae Yang, Jang Sik Ok, Rudy Timmerman, and so on, one would think that if these good and honorable people have a reason to leave, maybe something needs to be done to STOP this from happening. but, then again, their just numbers. just a percent in the WKSA books. and you wonder why there's so much "propaganda" against the WKSA? as Master Alex Suh said: the necessary steps for the WKSA to be part of the Martial Art Olympics has already been taken and we are well on our way. he and at least a dozen masters have been saying this since Master Alex officially announced it. not second hand info: straight from the source. my question was simple: what do you think of Kuk Sool Won becoming what its preached against being (i.e., sport)? and don't take the "well, better advertising" stance on it. you'll have the "Sport" rules to follow, and if you dont' then you might as well just leave the WKSA right now. how do you all feel about it?
More propaganda right there. Including masters who left decades to years ago. The WKSA is over 50+ years old. I don't expect everyone to have stayed with them for all 50 years. People come and go for various reasons and not everything points to a single reason. People are more complex than that. Over 50+ years, I expect a fair amount of turnover. What is the true net over the years? I suspect it certainly is not a hemorrhage, rather a natural progression and change. Personal egos from those that reached those lofty ranks also probably played atleast a partial role. I guess all the amazing masters left right? So you consider the Harmons and SJS to be crap? If you want to talk numbers, we can talk numbers. But if you want to drop names...it goes both ways. If all the amazing masters have left and the remaining are not practicing "real" KS...who else remaining in WKSA do you consider crap? I agree that EK Lee and BIL were great recent separations. But if we're truly taking tally here, I think the Harmons are great people who decided to stay. IMO, for every supposed amazing person that left...I think there might be atleast 4 or 5 amazing people that stayed! So if we're going to follow patterns...it is probably wiser to follow the vast majority than the minority....and the vast majority STAYED.
lmao really? are you serious? ask all those masters why they left and they'll say the same damn thing: politics, money, and the franchising of a martial art. don't believe me? ask them! so you'd compare someone like Soon Tae Yang to someone like, oh for the fun of it, yourself? hows that for dropping names? your suppose to be promoting to 5th dahn soon, right? or maybe, just maybe, any of the various new promotions versus the masters that left. put up comparisons over who's talked about more and who's left a legacy and then tell me its "propaganda". lol oh no, masters barry and choon ok harmon are amazing. and so is master sung jin suh. wait....those all the names you have? those THREE against my...how many? lol wow. yep. you win! i was sooooooo wrong. cooooolllll aiiiiid! lol but i guess whatever helps you sleep better at night, right?
I don't know how up to date it is, but this page purports to give details of the International Martial Arts Games Committee http://wikimartialarts.org/index.php/International_Martial_Arts_Games_Committee_(IMGC) It recognises: International Tae Kwon Do Federation - ITF International Federation of Pankration Athlima - IFPA International Jendo Federation - IJF International Federration of Amateur Unifight - IFAU International Kalaripayat Federation - IKF InternationalHaedong Kumdo and Tang Soo Do Contacfederation - IHKDTSDC International Kurash Federation - IKA World Chinese Kung fu Association - WCKA World Federation of Kickboxing - WFK World Karate Confederation - WKC World Muay thai Federation - WMF World Oriental-sport Federation - WOF Nothing there about Kuk Sool According to this page on a Tang Soo Do site: "The IMGC, which is a subsidiary of the IOC (International Olympics Committee) will hold its 4th Martial Arts Games in early 2011. The IMGC is working towards full Olympic recognition and the creation of a Martial Arts Olympics and has accepted Tang Soo Do as an approved Martial Art for the Games." http://www.tangsoodoworld.com/news/IMG_2011.htm I don't see any reference to Kuk Sool as a sport, or WKSA as an approved body. There are two things happening: one is that the next games organised by this group are in Talinn in 2011. Now it could be that a team from WKSA has been invited to demonstrate? The second thing is that this group partly exists to get MA accepted into the mainstream Olympics - in which case it would seem safe to assume they would give the existing member sports priority
Uhh no. Soon Tae Yang left WKSA before the franchising. Check your history. So I don't believe you when you say he left because of it. So everyone in WKSA outside of the Harmons and SJS is crap just because I didn't do a laundry list of names like you? Yeah right. Face reality, goto the website and see the faces of the masters if you have to. Many more masters stayed with the Won than those that left. These people aren't crap just because they stayed. I say again....in a group of 100...where people separate, I tend to not just look at the 7 or 8 that left but why the 92 or 93 STAYED. Sure some amazingly gifted people left, but some amazingly gifted people stayed as well! The difference? Most stayed. Just because you left doesn't make the minority cause any more significant. In fact, it sounds like sour grapes.
I wasn't trying to make propaganda and actually don't know anything about what's going on in WKSA other than what I read here, and hear from some of the disenfranchised (no pun intended). I was just trying to speculate on what I saw as the probability of a martial art as small as Kuk Sool being an Olympic sport. From all I've read, it seemed like there wasn't anyone above 5th left except the Harmons, the Suhs, and Gene Gause (a paragon of martial arts dignity, imo).
M-D, let me adjust my original guess. It looks like there are roughly 100 masters in Korea alone. There are 55 masters listed in the current WKSA International roster (http://www.kuksoolwon.com/site/about-kuk-sool-won/masters)....so there is a rough total of about 155 current active WKSA masters. So...what you read from MAP is further proof of anti-WKSA propaganda. Talk of 7 or 8 that left instead of the 147 or 148 that stayed. Instead of talking about what WKSA is doing wrong in losing 7 or 8 folks...what is the WKSA doing RIGHT to KEEP 147 or 148 folks? Think of the number of years it takes to make Master rank. I'd say the WKSA has great yield (147/155= 95%) despite what anti-WKSA malcontents may have you believe.
Everyone seems to be ignoring my post (No: 28) regarding the (IOC recognised body) SportAccord event... I can't imagine why the IOC would want to further duplicate international Martial Arts / Combat Sports events, when they already include Combat Sports such as: Judo, Wrestling, Boxing & Taekwondo in the Olympic Games themselves, and have obviously agreed to SportAccord (formerly AGFIS) organising the following event: "In March 2009, SportAccord signed an agreement with the city of Beijing, P. R. China, to organise the first SportAccord Combat Games. Scheduled from 28 August to 4 September 2010, the competition will showcase 13 Martial Arts and Combat sports, both Olympic and non-Olympic. The event will also include a Cultural Program that will reflect the social and cultural values of these sports and Combat Games as a whole. "Each sport will have 80 top athletes competing in the 2010 SportAccord Combat Games. These athletes will go through the qualification system set up by their respective International Federation. It is expected that the world best martial arts and combat sports athletes will qualify for the Combat Games. Both male and female athletes will take part. For those sports requiring weigh-in, different weight categories will be included. "During the eight days of competition, the 2010 SportAccord Combat Games will also include a cultural programme. Indeed, martial arts and combat sports have rich cultural heritages and convey social and educational values. The Combat Games will then serve as a great opportunity to enable deeper understanding of the sports by the public."
And if they mean that there will be 80 competitors allowed in 13 different events, that will be 1,040 competitors in total.
