Weightlifting to lose fat

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Reakt, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. Reakt

    Reakt Valued Member

    I'm doing this right now but I just need some clarification to make sure I'm not doing more harm then good.

    Now I'm trying to lose body fat (aiming for 1stone+) in the next three months, which seems to be viable. Right now I'm taking in about 1500 calories per day. It doesn't seem like much since I'm 6'2 and 180lbs but I do find it very easy to stick to this amount each day and I still feel as well as I have done, plus I'm burning fat at a steady pace.

    Now I personally hate most aerobic activites such as running etc, so it's difficult to keep up the enthusiasm to do it every other day. One sport I do enjoy is weightlifting, and I've heard that a good intensity workout with the weights can burn about 350 cals an hour.

    So I'm doing a compound exercise routine 3 times a week now at the gym. Now as you might have guessed I'm taking in a low amount of calories, certainly not a good amount for putting on muscle. I also can't afford to take any protein supplements such as shakes post-workout.

    Basically, I know I'll lose fat with this but I'm wondering if I'll put muscle on or maybe even burn that off as well with this routine? Or will I still gain muscle as well, just at a lower rate?

    Any help appreciated.
     
  2. Gary

    Gary Vs The Irresistible Farce Supporter

    A stone in 3 months is a nice target, that's just over a pound a week. If you can get some calipers and a friend to help out it might be worth measuring bodyfat too, since the weight training may well add some muscle, depending on how long you've been doing it previously. With resistance training a lot of the fat loss occurs afterwards, it elevates your metabolic rate for something like 36 hours later. The compounds you're doing are great, and to be honest at 1500 calories I'd want to get all my protein from whole food sources like meat, fish and eggs anyway so the lack of protein shakes is no biggie. Make sure you're still getting plenty of protein and good fats and your body will make the best of the situation.
     
  3. CosmicFish

    CosmicFish Aleprechaunist

    It's probable you'll lose a little muscle, it's pretty much inevitable when losing weight (unless you're a beginner). But the way you're going about it, nice and slow and with weight training, you probably won't lose too much if you do.

    I'd really strongly advise you to try to do something about getting in some decent post-WO nutririon though. If you cant afford protein powder then fair enough, but at least get a good meal in soon afterwards.
     
  4. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!


    Ok first of all, there is a lot of information that is conflicting over this issue.

    To be neutral, I'd say that you cannot totally depend on weightlifting alone, unless you are a hardgainer.

    Losing fat is a multidiscipinary approach, and it does not involve starvation.

    Weight training certainly give you a good workout and builds muscle, increasing your resting metabolic rate. Your metabolism cranks for a good part of a day after a heavy workout too.

    But to rely on that for burning fat alone is not sufficient. Mainly cause weightlifting primarily uses the process of glycolysis for its fuel source. To burn fat, you have to utilise oxygen, and do enough activity for a long enough period of time. Aerobic exercise is the best for this but as you said, it is dead boring. Therefore, use intervals sprints instead. Something that doesn't take as long but keeps your heart pumping for a long time. Plus, do high repetition weight training once a week, 1 set of 100 reps per body part. This should not be a light weight. It should be a weight that gives you a good burn after 12 reps. This builds your type 1 muscle fibres up, which have the most mitochondria, and burn the most fat over the easy to bulk up type 2 fibres. This teaches your body to burn fat and use it more efficiently.

    Make sure you lose the fat slowly as well, about 1/2 kg a week. If you bring your calories too low you'll end up slowing down your resting metabolic rate, and make it harder, and much more unpleasant to lose weight due to the affects on your mood as well.
     
  5. Reakt

    Reakt Valued Member

    Thanks for the advice Coma :)

    I can afford Protein powder so that's not an issue. The reason why I don't want to take it is because it's about 300 calories per shake, which might counteract my fat loss through calorie reduction. It's something I'll have to think about though.

    kensei1984 thanks for the info and advice. It is a multidiscipinary approach you're right. However I have been losing around 1-2lbs per week for the last month or so without the gym or any exercise. As you know the body does require a certain Caloric amount simply to function and move. If my BCR is around 2000 cals per day (just hypothesizing), then I'll still be slowly burning up at least some fat for fuel.

    Would you agree with the info I found that Weightlifting burns about 350 cals an hour? I've noticed if it's a good intensity workout my muscles are aching, I'm sweating and my hearts going just like if I had been running for a while. So it must be alright for burning calories? With what you say I'm sure theres a much more efficient way of burning the fat but if I lost 2-3lbs per week (which I'm hoping for if I introduce some bag work at home now and again), then I'm quite happy.

    I just want to make sure that weightlifting without the excess or calories or protein doesn't mean that the muscle basically eats itself.
     
  6. CosmicFish

    CosmicFish Aleprechaunist

    This is why you want a post-WO shake. TBH the extra 300 odd calories will be put to good use and won't hinder your overall goals. Post-WO nutrition is very important.

    Personally, I'd just take the extra ~300 cals on training days and not worry about it. 900 cals extra in one week ~1/4lb of fat. And if you really want to keep to a strict 1500 cals per day then I'd strongly advise losing the extra 300 calories elsewhere in your day.
     
  7. Gary

    Gary Vs The Irresistible Farce Supporter

    I'd also like to add that the extra muscle gained from sensible PWO nutrition will increase muscle mass slightly, in turn increasing your BMR and in turn increasing fat loss, even if it slows weight loss a little overall, you'll keep your gains easier once you're done :)
     
  8. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Actually if you are chubby no problem, but at a point you definitly need good protein and multiple carbs.

    Fish is really good or else take the omega 3 caps, very important for your health they say...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

    Keep it low, and many reps at this date and time is the way to go, forget the high weight and low reps...Not good until you build T and L stength. Muscle comes quick in comparison.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendon


    Stay away from the whey, go for Vegan protein. IMHO...

    http://www.naturodoc.com/library/nutrition/protein.htm

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2007
  9. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    Sounds alright. Remember your afterburn counts for something too. I have finals, so I'll give you a more detailed explanation later.

    But two important things.

    1. Eat enough. Little and often. Good quality food. You must give your body fuel. Fat, protein (your muscles) and carbohydrates are all burned in the energy equation, it is very rarely that the body uses a single type of fuel. But, like most exercises (think dips, you lean forward to get more emphasis on the chest rather than the triceps, same with the type of exercise you do for fat burning) you can change the emphasis with your type of training of muscle fibres.

    2. Rest. Too little rest raises cortisol, meaning your body is under stress and plays a factor in breaking down muscle, not to mention your mood. You also must be able to function in life. Get some good sleep, and be sure to have a weekend off, you can still do active rest such as sports (indoor soccer, martial arts! etc.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2007
  10. CosmicFish

    CosmicFish Aleprechaunist

  11. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    I would like to know too.

    If there is a premium on these products, I would go for the whey. Protein is protein. An amino acid is an amino acid. Valine is valine, arginine is arginine. The only difference between plant and animal is probably (maybe) content and bioavailability.
     
  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I'll add this also.
    Major muscle groups, are the key at this date and time.

    http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspartner/library/activity/trainbasics.htm

    Or just major muscles, for when working them the others come into play..

    http://www.ptcentral.com/muscles/musclelegs.html

    Legs are very important, that is the location for the greatest amount of body strength and building blood, Thigh bones etc.. Just think, structure and what is most important.

    Rest has been mentioned very much needed. Most down play this because it is not something talked about much..But very important at least 8 or more hours and some naps are good inbetween. Yes Naps...

    http://www.locateadoc.com/articles.cfm/891/1083

    Regards,
    Gary
     
  13. Gary

    Gary Vs The Irresistible Farce Supporter

    Protein is a protein only works on paper. If you're on a calorie restricted diet protein from whole food sources is a far better alternative. It will contain more vitamins and minerals, something which most people will be deficient in on a hypocaloric diet. They provide better satiety than easily absorbed proteins like whey, which will help when sticking to a diet and the thermic value of whole food is also higher than supplemental proteins, which is great when trying to lose fat.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2007
  14. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    True, I encourage the consumption of whole foods myself, but for some people to get the protein they need for their body, they need supplemental sources, simply cause they cannot eat enough or get sick of eating.

    My explanation was really based on the comparison of the two different types of protein in the other post though, I just wanted to know the rationale behind choosing non-whey supplemental protein (at least that's what I hope we are talking about, tell me if I need more coffee). I really wonder if there is anything special about it other than being just an alternative.


    EDIT: Oops, sorry, I didn't realise they were whole foods, I thought they were supplements.

    How does quinoa taste?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2007
  15. CosmicFish

    CosmicFish Aleprechaunist

    I'd also like to add that protein from animal sources has a better amino balance as far as humans are concerned. Sure, veggies and vegans can mix their protein sources, but it's extra work, and I've never been convinced that it eliminates the problem of limiting aminos 100%. ;)

    Very nice! It's a little bland on it's own, but certainly very palatable. It also has a very well balanced amino profile, which kinda contradicts what I've said above, but not many people seem to know about it. I'm pretty sure a protein powder derived from it would be a big hit in the veggie weightlifting community, so I'm a little puzzled why no-one's thought of it yet.
     
  16. Suhosthe

    Suhosthe A dwarf! A dwarf!

    Well, if you're coping okay on 1500 calories you're about to like what I say to you.

    As far as I can figure (based on the information above and checking your age and gender on your profile), your basal metabolic rate is around 2000 calories per day. That, as I'm sure you know, is the minimum amount of energy your body requires if you do nothing at all except exist. The kicker with BMR is that if you consume fewer calories than that, you gain no additional weightloss benefit.

    What I'm saying is that you can - and, in fact, to maintain good health, must - consume 2000 calories daily and you will see no appreciable detriment to your weightloss. I'd suspect you'd actually feel better for it, as you notice improvements in your well-being much more than you notice any degeneration. You're still growing, weightloss or not, and you really don't want to make yourself ill for the sake of 500 calories a day.

    Boring as it is, burn more calories through cardio rather than starve yourself. Get some advice on HIIT for efficient fat loss.

    Drink those protein shakes, and eat more. It's better for you, I promise.
     
  17. Reakt

    Reakt Valued Member

    That's fair enough but I have been steadily losing fat every week for the last month or so. I've even went down in waist size for my jeans. So with your theory how is that explainable?

    I'm also not sure how what you mentioned worked. If your BMR is the amount needed to simply live then surely if you are having 1500 calories per day, your body will seek out the remaining 500 from fat or another energy source? The BCR I have isn't just organs working etc either, it's every muscular movement I do throughout the day. So surely that burns calories just like cardio, where you're just moving your muscles faster?

    I dont know really, I feel like I'm coping more then fine on 1500 cals. At worst I feel hungry at certain points of the day. I can still even enjoy treats etc and keep to the amount, certainly not feeling starved.

    My basic calorie intake is usually like this:

    Breakfast: 300 (sometimes an egg sandwich usually)
    Lunch: 300 (might be a toastie, sandwich or something like that)
    Dinner: 500 (it can vary. This can be anything really. Involves meats and carbs such as pasta)
    Supper (around 9pm): 300-400 (could be anything).

    Now that's 1500 and that keeps me full and active throughout the day. Obviously on workout days at the gym I sometimes take in more, simply because my body is hungry more as it requires the calories and nutrients.
     
  18. Suhosthe

    Suhosthe A dwarf! A dwarf!

    It is really late here, so forgive me if I fail to explain anything properly; I've never been particularly good on this concept, myself, and I still struggle with it. :)

    Because you'll still lose weight, you just won't lose more weight than you would if you were eating 2000 calories.

    This is the thing about BMR. Imagine that those 2000 calories go into a special tank, if you will. This special tank is earmarked for 'maintaining your body regardless of non-essential activity', so the calories in here only go on keeping you alive. Every calorie you consume up to that 2000 goes into that tank.

    You also have a separate tank. This tank gets burned on non-essential activity. In other words, moving around. If you don't burn it all up, the energy in this tank gets moved into the 'fat' tank to be stored to burn later.

    If you don't fill the first tank - the maintenance tank - your body a) isn't going to maintain itself properly, and b) will 'shrink' the size of the tank, and stretch out what it gets over the processes it requires the energy for. You're kind of starving at this point, and your body wants to make the most of everything it's got.

    The activity tank and the fat tank are linked. If you have a deficit in your activity tank, then you'll make the rest of the energy up from the fat tank. However, your body needs everything it's got in the maintenance tank to keep you alive and basically healthy. If the maintenance tank is only 3/4 full, it's not able to do its job properly, but because it's not linked to the fat tank, you won't be able to supplement it from there and burn extra calories.

    Furthermore, if you're not taking in enough energy to fill up your maintenance tank, then you're not getting enough nutrition to keep you healthy, either.

    And that's great, but you need more. Try it for a couple of weeks, and if your weightloss stalls, then no harm no foul, right?

    It's a fact that you have to eat to lose weight. You don't want your body to think it's starving, because then it'll resist any attempt to try and lose weight.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2007
  19. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    At least he seems to eat more when he feels hungry on training days, good enough I think, but it does seem that he is walking on a fine line. I don't think an extra snack will hurt a bit, providing it's good food with a high nutritional profile and low GI.

    Reakt, I would follow Suhosthe advice, cause to me, 1500 cals is a bit low, if not just right. if you don't give your body enough food, it'll start to eat itself (i.e. muscle) and lower your BMR, which means that you'll start to pack it on cause your body thinks its about to go through a 48 hour famine.
     
  20. fighting13

    fighting13 Valued Member

    don't sweat the extra calories too much(no pun intended). you need at least 30 grams of protien after a weightlifting workout to help your muscles to start growing. and btw, for every 2-3 lbs of muscle you put on your body will burn anywhere from 150-300 calories just resting and even more while working out. i always like to finish a workout w/ 3-4 cups of milk and a peanut butter sandwich heavy with the peanut butter. that alone should be enough protien after a workout to build some muscle. remember, muscle constantly burns fat, even at rest.
     

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