Weightlifting for martial arts.

(Can't believe we don't have THIS thread yet )

(EDIT: need to un-embed the video links. halp!)

So, I'm bored and I figured I'd make a thread about specifically supplementing martial arts training with weightlifting (As opposed to doing martial arts and lifting weights as two separate activities and not maximizing their cross-over).

Hopefully we all know that being stronger is cool and that good things happen if you develop a good level of strength, so I'm just going to list lifts I consider of use, with a short blurb on why I think they're useful for martial arts, followed by what would be my personal choices for an MA-focused routine, and I invite everyone to comment, suggest your own exercises, discuss other people's points, ask questions, share your experiences with MA and strength training, etc.
My experience is mainly with "orthodox" weightlifting (For lack of a better term), so that's what I'll talk about, but there are several kinds of 'traditional' strength training methods used in several martial arts that have varying amounts of overlap with this (Chinese stone locks, Okinawan Hojo-undo methods, Indian clubs, etc).
Needless to say, all of the listed exercises require gradual progression in order to acquire good (And therefore SAFE) technique, as well as maximizing their efficiency, and those with joint problems and similar issues should of course be extra careful with exercise selection and execution.

Let's get the obvious ones out the way first (These being among the more efficient lifts in general):

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Barbell Squat:

Spoiler

The aptly nicknamed "king of lifts" is something everyone with healthy legs should do (And it can help SOME who don't have healthy ones ). It is a 'full-body' lift that, when done correctly, develops and maintains health and mobility in the ankles, hips and knees (I almost never stretch, and personally attribute my perpetually above-average leg flexibility purely to squatting), affirms the support structure of the vertebral column, and pretty much strengthens everything between your neck and the floor. Needless to say, squats are good. MA-wise, I'd recommend the front squat variant, which strengthens the mid-back and abdomen a bit more than other squat variants (Although for general health and mobility I'd recommend the overhead squat). That said, any squatting variant done heavy will result in increased full-body power output.
Reference:
High-bar Back Squat: Full-body development, focused on legs and back.
Low-bar Back Squat: More glute, hamstring and lower back emphasis, higher load capacity.
Clean grip Front Squat: More quadriceps, mid-back and abdomen emphasis, lower load capacity.
Cross-arm grip Front Squat: Same, requires less wrist mobility.
Overhead Squat: Heavy shoulder mobility and stability component, even lower load capacity.

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Barbell Deadlift:

Spoiler

The other big "leg" lift, in the deadlift the weight is in front of the feet, on the ground, which means that the body has to do a certain degree of backwards pulling to center itself, leading to a tremendous increase in posterior chain activation (Along with the abdominal wall for stabilization). As far as generalized back strengthening goes, nothing beats the deadlift, and it also increases strength in the forearms (Required to hold the bar) and neck (From synergy with the upper back and shoulder muscles to stabilize the shoulder joints against the load). Another lift that everyone should do, but for MA, specifically, the deadlift and its 'stiff-legged' variant make excellent counterparts to the front squat, by strengthening the entire back and abdomen (As well as the grip), and strengthening and stretching the hamstrings and calves.
Reference:
Conventional Deadlift: Full body development, greatly focused on the back and abdomen.
Sumo Deadlift: Good for shiko-dachi or horse stance users. Less lower back focus, more outer thigh/glutes focus, higher load capacity.
Stiff-leg Deadlift: More hamstring focus, heavy lower back involvement as stabilizer, lower load capacity. Good hamstring loaded stretch.

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Barbell Overhead Press:

Spoiler

Pushing a weight overhead with your arms. I shouldn't have to explain why this is useful . That said, it also incurs a high level of abdominal development. One moves less weight than on a bench press here, but the action of the shoulder joint is more applicable to striking/pushing structure than that of a bench press, so I personally consider it a better movement for the purposes of assisting MA training, where the bench is a better arm strength builder. It is also generally considered a very healthy exercise for the shoulder joints, which is all the more reason to do it.
Reference:
Overhead Press: Balanced body development with an upper-body focus, particularly triceps, abdomen and upper back/shoulders.
Behind-The-Neck Press: Greater arm/shoulder focus, lower load capacity. Less safe with narrow grips.
Push Press: Press with leg drive. Less shoulder involvement, greater load capacity, greater stability component. Easier at the first half, harder at the second one.
BTN Push Press: Safer than a strict BTN press and with a much greater load capacity, but still not as safe as frontal press variants.

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Row:

Spoiler

Also pretty self-explanatory; you pull something heavy, you get stronger, then you can pull heavier things, repeat ad infinitum. Also works grip strength.
Reference:
Barbell Bent-over Row: Greater load capacity from bilateral motion, main focus on back, moderate focus on arms, slight focus on grip.
Dumbbell 1-arm Row: Lower load capacity, with focus on the arm and abdomen if the torso is kept stable, and on the arm and back if it's moved to assist the movement.

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These main movements aside, here are some other movements that can be of great use for martial artists, some of them quite common, others less so:

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Lunge:

Spoiler

The lunge is a great way to build mobility and strength in the hips and thighs, and is, along with squats and deadlifts, one of the best tools for people who use their legs heavily.
Reference:
Barbell Lunge: Requires good posture, allows the greatest load.
Dumbbell Lunge: Slightly less postural emphasis, lower load capacity.
Walking Lunge: More posterior chain emphasis.

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Farmer's Walk:

Spoiler

A not very common exercise where weights are carried in both hands while walking normally for a set distance or amount of time. Useful for everyone, since it develops stabilization of the entire body while in motion.

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Barbell Clean:

Spoiler

One of the 'Olympic lifts', as it is used in the 'Clean and Jerk' in Olympic Weightlifting competitions, this lift and its variants consist of bringing a barbell from the ground to the shoulders in a fluid motion. The 'rack position' of the barbell at the shoulders is where the name of the clean grip for front squats comes from. All of these variants develop great explosive strength in the posterior chain, but are typically harder to learn than the slower lifts are, and might require direct coaching in order to be learned properly. Anyone benefiting from a strong back and explosive hip extension (Which for MA is basically everyone) will benefit from doing cleans. It also includes a grip component, since it is similar to a lighter, more explosive version of a deadlift.
Reference:
Full Clean: Greatest load capacity, ends in the last half of a front squat.
Power Clean: Lower load capacity but somewhat more explosive.
Hang Clean: Same as full clean but starting above the kneecap. Lower loads but more explosiveness.
Hang Power Clean: Same as power clean but starting above the kneecap. Much lower loads but even more explosiveness.

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Barbell Snatch:

Spoiler

The other lift used for Olympic competition, in this one the barbell is brought overhead instead of to the shoulder. It works most of the same things, with the difference of using a slightly lower load and a greater shoulder and elbow stability component.
Reference:
Full Snatch: Greatest load capacity, ends in the last half of an overhead squat.
Power Snatch: Lower load capacity but somewhat more explosive.
Hang Snatch: Same as full snatch but starting above the kneecap. Lower loads but more explosiveness.
Hang Power Snatch: Same as power snatch but starting above the kneecap. Much lower loads but even more explosiveness.

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Dumbbell/Kettlebell Variants:

Spoiler

Versions of barbell lifts done with dumbbells or kettlebells. Technique adjustments vary depending on the lift, with some being altogether different lifts that share a name due to being outwardly similar, but most barbell lifts can be done in some manner with dumbbells or kettlebells, either with both hands or one side at a time. Generally, the main differences are a lower load capacity and a greater stabilization component, making them worse for strength development, but better for fine-tuning muscle activation. Similarly, some barbell lifts can also be done unilaterally, as if using a dumbbell, which essentially has the same effect, but magnified. Also includes some DB/KB-specific movements like the [ame=youtube.com/watch?v=QrVgpDOLlgM]goblet squat[/ame] (An excellent mobility and posture tool) and the [ame=youtube.com/watch?v=Gja70kgtvoQ]renegade row[/ame] (A great abdominal stabilizer if the arms and back are proportionately stronger than the abs).

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Weighted Bodyweight Movements:

Spoiler

Good old calisthenics with a little extra oomph in the shape of added weight. Pretty much self-explanatory.
Reference:
Weighted Push-up
Weighted Pull-up/Chin-up

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Windmill:

Spoiler

An excellent movement for developing one-sided stability in the shoulder joints and abdomen/lower back, as well as stretching the hamstrings and calves. Can be done in combination with an overhead lift, or by itself, using an overhead lift only to lift the weight to start a set.
Reference:
Kettlebell Windmill ([ame=youtube.com/watch?v=6651sjanpxI]Alternate[/ame]): Arm internally rotated due to the off-center weight of the KB.
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=0gMRrtTN5OE]Dumbbell Windmill[/ame]: Arm slightly externally rotated to stabilize the centered weight of the DB.

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Side Press/Bent Press:

Spoiler

Among the trickier of the slow lifts, these two are however possibly the best lifts to assist with developing a strong structure for straight-arm pushing/striking movements, particularly the side press. They basically have the stability benefits of the windmill, but with a much higher load capacity in the bent press, and a better applicability to pressing strength with the side press.
Reference:
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=GPo7Yu3SkO4&feature=relmfu]Kettlebell Side Press/Bent Press[/ame] ([ame=youtube.com/watch?v=R_A4q50xZpU]Alternate Bent Press[/ame]): Arm internally rotated due to the off-center weight of the KB.
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=XuCIox7PkwE&feature=related]Dumbbell Bent Press[/ame]: Arm slightly externally rotated to stabilize the centered weight of the DB.
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=fvNISDX8tSo]DB Side Press variant[/ame]: No windmill finish, therefore even more focus on pressing strength and less on stability.

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[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=vrgYO-9d7OA]Twist[/ame]:

Spoiler

One of, if not THE best way to develop rotational power via strength-training. Not having rotational power makes baby Jesus cry.

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Swing:

Spoiler

Another hip extension exercise, similar to the clean and the snatch, but done with a kettlebell or dumbbell. With a KB it tends to be done for higher amounts of repetitions and is good for cardiovascular fitness and more hip-focused strength development, while the dumbbell swing tends to be more of a full-body explosiveness movement done for fewer reps.
Reference:
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=q0jalJ-3e7U]Kettlebell Swing[/ame] ([ame=youtube.com/watch?v=KDZAF9RWsi0]Alternate[/ame]): Minimal knee dip focuses the movement on the hip hinge pattern. Hip extension/glute and hamstring actuvation focus.
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=rJqPgV681Hg]Overhead/Crossfit KB swing[/ame]: Greater knee dip shifts the focus from a hip hinge to a squat-type movement. Slightly lower load capacity but fuller back and shoulder activation.
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=2OVS0EukVTY]Dumbbell Swing ("KB style")[/ame]: Same movement, but with a DB.
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=Xn5Vcb8ICvc]Dumbbell Swing ("Old style")[/ame]: Heavier full-body movement with a change to a 'split stance'. Similar to a dumbbell 'split snatch'.

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Roll-out:

Spoiler

A classic abdominal strengthening move, with a nice effect on the hip flexors and lower back if done right, as well as working shoulder stability if using bigger ranges of motion. Can be done with various implements and degrees of difficulty.
Reference:
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=ATYdM_-TW5s]Two-arm Roll-out (Barbell)[/ame]: Less torso/shoulder stability needed, more freedom with grip positioning.
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=Bdgi9srx6yY]Two-arm Roll-out (Wheel)[/ame]: More stability required.
[ame=youtube.com/watch?v=YmPxIUt7AEw]Double-sided Wheel (or DB) Roll-out[/ame]: Even more stability required. Facilitates one-armed variants.

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So that's what I have, basically. I've personally tried almost all of these at some point or another, so their inclusion and the associated comments are based on personal experience indicating that these movements can be useful to a martial artist in some way or another, even if they aren't direct imitations of martial arts techniques. Additionally, although the breathing methods for weightlifting are not identical to the kinds of breathing used for martial arts techniques, they tend to be roughly analogous, and thus they can complement each other (Particularly for styles that use heavier breathing patterns and shouting).

I don't currently have an MA-focused lifting program, myself, but if I were to personally choose lifts with which to make one, right now I'd be inclined towards something like this:

Spoiler

Clean/Squat movements: Full Clean or Power clean to Front Squat (In alternating workouts).
Secondary Pressing movements: BB overhead press and BTN Push Press (In all workouts).
Secondary Back movement: Pull-ups and Chin-ups (All).
'Sport-Specific' Movements: DB Side Press or DB Windmill (Alt.), Full-contact Twist (All).
Assistance movements: Stiff-leg Deadlift and KB/DB Overhead Squat, or KB/DB Goblet Squat and KB Overhead Swing (Alt.)

This would theoretically let me have: A solid full-body strength and health foundation based on pulling, pressing and squatting; explosive power development in both rotation and hip extension; exercises that help develop a solid structure via the arms; and mobility-focused exercises shifting towards cardio at the end of a session, all in a workout that if managed well shouldn't take more than an hour and a half or two hours, and could easily be condensed into less.

And that's it! Any thoughts, questions or suggestions? Any anecdotes related to MA and weights, perhaps?

 

My biggest problem with weightlifting was always that I'd never be able to recover fully between workouts because I'd be hitting the gym on the days between training and since I go 3 days a week to wing chun I only get one recovery day. If anyone has a solution for this I'd be all ears, or eyes as it were.

 

Not a total solution as recovery time is always a problem but try lifting only twice a week.

 

fish i am disappoint
you of all people know theres a difference between weight lifting and weight training!

 

is it me or did you actually leave the bench press of the list lol

 

yep lift on the same days you do wing chun, or do two fully body workouts that way you have 2 recovery days a week

and to be honest most kung fu classes are not that taxing you will still be able to recovery even if you only had 1 recovery day a week
Thats not a dig at your style of choice just a fact i grapple two or three times a week in addition to power lifting, striking is way easier to recover from than throwing and lifting 100kg opponents for a hour on end lol

 

Image removed due to masked profanity.

apparently benching is no longer functional.

 

you only do 3 days a week martial arts training ? fitting in two conditioning sessions/days should be easy, would still leave you with 2 days off. If your still buggered from a session the day after you did it, you may need to have a look at your diet/sleep pattern.

 

The bench press is the best general upper body strengthening exercise there is, due to the weights being moved.

 

It's fact that the tues and thurs classes are 3-4 hours each and I'm there for a full 8 hours on saturday. And much of it isn't taxing on certain areas but doing chi sao for an hour, and then pak sao for an hour, and forms for an hour my legs get worn out and my shoulders dieeeee.

 

Thanks Fish. some I've never heard of but will be giving a try, Goblet squat! lol.
May I recommend the dumbbell snatch. I've been making tremendous progress and a noticeable improvement in explosiveness in about four months.

 

that's actually a lot of training hours and the difference between a 4 hour and 3 hour session is crazy, but the thing is conditioning properly, getting stronger and fitter is probably go to help you recover from those session faster in the long run, and two days is probably the minimum in which that can be done

 

Yeah I guess I'll have to cut down my time in class, train forms even more ouside of class and then ask if I can just work on the other stuff in class. I don't want to cut down on class time but I think I may have to if since want to get back in the gym.

 

@sketco: eat more and sleep more, basically . additionally, try deloading on the lifting sessions until your body gets used to doing stuff all week, and then start increasing the weights again as you stop getting sore.

@icefield + cloystreng: under "barbell overhead press":

tut tut

@zaad: do not be a pedant or i will assassinate you again. you're not even a competitive oly lifter, so you don't get to be pedantic about that either

 

Not gonna deny it! My OL coach got offended the first time i called weight training weight lifting.
Great thread btw! heres my contribution.

Here's a short overview to those beginning in weight training for MA.

First off. Build base strength!
How do you do that? Listen to any lifting program written by a power lifter for beginners. Programs like 5X5 or Starting Strength are awesome.

But heres how you can begin to integrate your training once you've been through those programs and how you can integrate MA training and Strength Training.

To steal from dan john, you need a couple basic types of movements (and some of my recommendations for beginners):

Hip Hinge - Stiff Legged Deadlifts, Clean Deadlifts
Squatting - Front Squats (personal preference), Back Squats
Vertical Pushing - Over Head Press, Dips
Vertical Pulling - Pullups, High Pulls
Horizontal Pushing - Pushups, Dumbbell/Bench Press
Horizontal Pulling - Inverted Rows, Dumbbell Rows/Pendlay Rows
Loaded Carries - Farmers Walks, Overhead Walks
Rotational and Anti Rotational Movements - Planches and Russian Twists

Why do each movement for MA?
* Hip hinging and squatting are basic power generation movement movements and their partial ranges are used in both striking and grappling for for both punches and throws
* Rotational Movements are used when you rotate to generate power for a punch or throw.
* Pushing and Pulling is quite essential in grappling.
* Loaded carries are important for controlling opponents in the clinch where full body tension becomes important.

Range of movement
- In general it's important to strengthen a full range of motion of a particular movement as this will add power into any partial range of movement you do.
- Partial ranges however are important to use. It's important to look at how your MA uses each movement in a particular range of motion and include training related to that movement e.g. Jerk specific Front squat is quite similar to the leg drive used in standing grappling by triple extension
- Don't forget to work single leg an single arm movements such as lunges, single arm presses, e.t.c

Range of repetitions
- Pretty simple stuff really. If the movement is heavy or explosive, keep the repetitions low.
- For a new guy to lifting, (sarcoplasmic) hypertrophy and strength gain (Myofibrillar hypertrophy) are the same thing so early on in your lifting career. 5 to 8 reps for 3 to 6 sets while keeping it heavy for any exercise will be fine for you.

Goal Setting
- Have a goal and stick to it for 4-8 weeks
- Decide an off-season. a period of time you wont compete, will spar less and focus on refining your skills or increasing your strength before the competition period begin.
If you don't compete or have competitions spread out through the year, chose periods of the year as an off season.

Stupid Things to Avoid.
- Avoid Mixing movements in an effort to have a more efficient training session e.g. Don't do one arm Dumbbell Pendlay rows!
You might think that this would deal with anti rotational movements and a horizontal rowing movement but the shearing forces on your vertebrae will end a disk herniation and possibly surgery.
Trust me on this, my back hurts.
If you do one arm dumbbell rows, ensure you have a way to stabilise your body such as bench to lean on, Kroc Rows Style.

- Having Too Many Goals
Trying to move up weight class, gain muscular endurance, gain explosive strength, get better cardio, maintain a low body fat, learn new skills, prepare for competition and trying to "bring it" in each class or sparring session is extremely taxing on your nervous system. Decide on one goal at a time.

- Not Being Sport Specific Enough
Remember what you're training for at the end of the day.
MA's have a large skill component in which strength needs to be applied into.
Here's a bit from Poliquin that illustrates my point perfectly:

- Being too sport specific
Yep. you can be too specific. Examples of this?
Shadow boxing and kicking with ankle weights.
Triangling sandbags and only ever quarter squatting 150 pounds because in your MA sparring class you NEVER do any movement similar to a full squats.
Well let me put it this way. that time spent quarter-squatting could be spent full squatting, which would dramatically increase your quarter-sqautting pounds above and beyond 225 and probably increase your jerk specific squat numbers and increase your explosiveness in your MA class.

What Program Would I Recommend?
Well, depends on your goals and resources.

 

actually id argue the set up for the bench, tight lats elbows down tight core and the weight pushed in a straight line from shoulder out to lockout is much more applicable to striking, and guys on their back use a bench motion in certain mount escapes and any frame off your back (as you do in side control escapes for example) is exactly the same as the mid point of a bench press,

I personally never got the whole overhead lifting is better than benching argument..... you never press anyone or anything overhead when fighting, and the core and legs are used just as much in the bench as they are in the overhead press plus you can overload the muscles more

 

good points! what i mean by the shoulder action being more applicable, though, is that the movement of the shoulder joint relative to the torso goes with the direction of push in the OHP, whereas it goes against it in the bench press (since you redirect some of the force to the bench). if you were to punch with a retracted shoulder blade, you would be weakening your structure at the level of the shoulder-joint. power-wise, it all comes from the core and legs, and for that there are better lifts than OHPs and benches.

i don't say it's better (the bench IS the stronger movement, after all), but it is healthier than the bench IF the bench is not complemented by other movements like heavy rows and anything involving scapular protraction. i personally don't bench because my technique sucks ass, AND i have crappy shoulders and poor rowing strength, so i'd rather play it safe. plus, i enjoy overhead pressing more than i do benching.

 

id argue its not healthier for guys used to doing a lot of contact work such as punching because Most athletes lack the external rotation mobility necessary to correctly overhead press and the movement itself shoves the humeral head up into the socket.

Buddy Morris (S and C coach in pro football) did a fair amount of investigation into shoulder health with his football players and found the impact and damage done to their shoulders simply by their level of contact in their sport wrecked shoulder health and mobility to such extent they couldn't handle heavy weights overhead safely, joe defranco found the same with his wrestlers and joel jamision found the same with his MMA athletes they all find the bench to be a safer movement when taught the powerlifter way

 

I'm always wary of this Defranco and guys like him, due ot the fact that he trains athletes that have been heavily training the bench press for a long time - especially football players. By the time he can do any sort of ooverhead pressing movement, their mobility has been compromised by years of training.

From my own personal experience, I honestly can't say much about bench vs overhead press. I can't bench anymore, or at least not for a long time due to a bad (and now a second, less severe on the other shoulder) AC injurie. That being said, I can jerk and hold 280+ overhead (I have yet to test a max jerk since the injury), while I can't bench without issues.


@Zaad - I know you called out the difference between weightlifting and Weight Training. I do agree. However, I personally started weightlifting in order to improve my martial arts practice. Oly lifting, not just moving weights. So one could say they do weightlifting to improve their martial arts.

 

i on the other hand have a subluxed left shoulder and happily overhead press to my heart's content, even managing to pull off a light barbell bent press once, and i attribute the strengthening of my injured shoulder to insane amounts of different kinds of presses, including two and one-armed barbell presses, dumbbell presses, push presses, push jerks, kettlebell bent presses, windmills, etc. while we're on the name dropping, you'll also find that people like eric cressey, who trains with baseball athletes while he himself has competed in powerlifting, so he knows stuff about benching AND shoulders, explicitly mentions the bench press as a cause of injury.

plus, jim wendler recommends overhead pressing

re: mobility: if you try to do ANYTHING heavy without developing the necessary mobility to do so safely first (hell, without using a light weight first to see if you actually can do it right), you're dumb, plain and simple. also, dumbbells.