Watched a Kendo Class

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Pretty In Pink, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Insteresting. After I'm done fighting I want to start taking weapons more seriously. Would Kenjutsu be a better place to start in terms of effectiveness/efficiency?
     
  2. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I'd have thought FMA would be a better fit considering your background.


    You'd have to do lots of kata :eek: in Kenjutsu.
     
  3. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I thought fencing might be no. 1 for that?
     
  4. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    HEMA!!! Or go the DBMA route.
     
  5. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Fencing is the semi contact point sparring of the sword world.
     
  6. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Just so you know Chadderz, if you take up fencing I will laugh at you. And I will encourage others to do so.

    The only question I have about the class is why was the girl given push ups? If it was for fudging the technique that seems unfair. I prefer the idea of asking them to demonstrate it and then opening it up to the class to answer what they did wrong. Learning opportunities and whatnot.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with watching anime. Go watch Highschool of the Dead and then come back to me :p
     
  7. moffatt

    moffatt New Member

    wasting time

    Hi everyone :)

    For my opinion on this I took away the following things that really made me dislike this Kendo class,

    1. The public ridicule of that 1 girl it was very cruel.

    2. The warm up was very outdated and dangerous, making people do high impact move to warm up causes a lot of damage to their joints

    3. The time wasting. Tom has already explained this but if anyone want to give details more than happy to.

    4. The instructor doing the techniques with everyone. In my opinion the instructor should demonstrate then watch everyone else to them give groups and individual advice. This allows him to understand everyone of his pupils. Also it make sure not one is doing anything dangerous by mistake.

    5. As Tom said pupils seemed scared to ask questions and break the silence,what are you meant to do if you have a question? To me asking question is the best way to improve, if I could not ask questions in BJJ there is no way I would have my Blue Belt or any clue how to do a lot of techniques.

    Watching this has really not made me want to do Kendo in the future and I use to enjoy weapons training, to a degree there are real reasons I switched to MMA :)
     
  8. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    And what is wrong with semi contact point sparring?
     
  9. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Two thoughts:

    1) Fencing isn't the point fighting of weapons. Point fighting is ludicrous because the level of contact and quality of hit that it rewards would do sweet sod all in a fight. In fencing, that level of contact would run a man through. The weapon changes the value of that hit quite a bit.

    2) I have exactly the same take on kendo/kenjutsu Chadderz. I used to watch them practice after my classes at graduate school (George Washington University). And, while I recognize that there are cultural and philosophical reasons for why they do it that way, frankly, I kept thinking precisely the same thing. "Get on with it!" As the observer, it was frustrating. I would be interested to know the thoughts the actual participants though.

    Different strokes. I get that. But coming from an FMA background, I thought it was a poor training/ritual ratio.
     
  10. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    It's only one step away from doing XMA!!!!

    :D
     
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Can we not lump Kendo and Kenjutsu together? If people like Kendo then great but it ain't Kenjutsu.
     
  12. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Depends on what you want. As an inclusive and exciting competitive sport that offers a good aerobic workout and develops speed and reactions both are good. As a simulation of combat both are flawed, and interestingly in similar ways.
     
  13. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Sorry Ap that's fundamentally untrue, point flicking is a major strategy in foil fencing and many of the "cuts" used in sabre fencing would cause very superficial injuries.
     
  14. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I did kendo for a few years! My experience was very like yours. Lots of time spent on rituals, very few actual rounds of sparring. Military atmosphere. I was never good at it, but sparring was great fun. So much depends on mere inches to the point where it could be mystifying how someone pulled something off and screwed up your attack at the same time. Very, very, very much dependent on controlling centerline - can't help but wonder if that sort of bled into striking arts, hence its overemphasis in some systems.

    I was around 15-17 at the time. I was very into the whole samurai thing, but now, as an old git, I much prefer the chilled out mood rolling in judo or BJJ. I guess all that discipline stuff is fine if that's what you're into, but I'm burnt out at the end of the day and need a more relaxed atmosphere these days.
     
  15. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Well yes. That's true. Fair point (so to speak). I was thinking more generally of the lunge-thrust action you see in fencing. You don't feel a thing, so it feels like you're just playing tag. But at that range with that force, the other guy would have made kebabs of your important bits.
     
  16. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    If you're talking to me, then I'm aware they're different. But the overall level of ritual sounds similar. I was watching a kenjutsu club to be technical about it. (In that they used no armour, carried bokken rather than shinai, etc.) But the level of ritual (and the time it took) sounds very much like what Chadderz describes.
     
  17. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Unless he flicks in the tip in foil, exploits right of way in epee or whips a percussive hit in sabre. Much like if he grazed you with a flicky backfist as you throw a clean cross in points fighting.
     
  18. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Which ryu-ha? Just out of interest.

    Reiho are part of the cultural trappings, it is what it is but by the same token it shouldn't be emphasised so much that you are doing more of that than you are working on waza.

    I will say thought that things do get a little extra formal when someone is observing.

    I've been in class and we've not dropped the reiho but condensed it at times so that we can focus our time on the waza. Koryu keiko can be very personal when compared to the larger format found in most gendai budo.

    I get that some will see it as a waste but in theory there's nothing wasted in practice, it all links and not just for the sake of it being a tradition.
     
  19. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Alright, alright. Uncle! Ma-te! I concede! ;)
     
  20. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Haven't the foggiest. I certainly didn't stop the class to ask. And, with a full-time job, full-time graduate school, and a newborn at home, I wasn't prepared to hang around until afterward. I needed sleep more than I needed to know.

    And perhaps it wasn't. I never stayed longer than 20 minutes. But I went four or five times. Mind you, it was always at roughly the same time, as it was when my class let out.

    I don't think that was it. I daresay that curious onlookers wandered through constantly, given that it was a university campus.

    I'm not sure what most of that means.

    "In theory, there's nothing wasted in practice" is a bit of a koan all on its own. I don't know what to say beyond what I've already said. It didn't suit me personally. I might have felt differently as a participant, giving them the benefit of the doubt. And I'm not suggesting for a moment that it was a waste of their time. Only, as Chadderz has also clearly stated, that it's not my cup of tea. I love many things about the Japanese approach. But the sense of time spent isn't one of them. That's just me... and Chadderz... and whomever else.
     

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