Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by TonyMc, Jun 16, 2012.
What beans do you put in a wall bag, and where would you buy them?
Mung beans. Asda's probably cheapest.
Couldn't you use sand or other powdered/pulverized substances?
Beans seem to be like an irregular surface to be striking.
Sand is pretty heavy and solid for a beginner. Beans are light and will crush a little under impact. The irregularity doesn't matter so much.
You could also use rice FYI.
Are wallbags struck with the entire fist or all the knuckles?
If I made myself one, I could probably start with sand, as I can do first two knuckle pushups on hard surfaces with ease and punching trees only results in minimal pain for me.
However, if they are struck with the entire fist, I may have to condition the other knuckles more.
The entire fist will usually impact but more force will be taken on whatever you're using as your striking surface. The issue with sand is only partly about the hand. Part of it is that you must have your basic structures in place in order to avoid injury.
Here's a little info from my si-hing on how to choose, fill, and train a wall bag
I have been using a karate makawara its just as good I think, its a leather covered sprung wood one so it looks neater as well. but I might mount another two so I have three in a collum.
It's not the same. One of the things the wall bag helps you work is penetration, that is, making sure the punch is going all in one direction without bleeding power to the side. If you do it on a makiwara there's no real consequence. With a wall bag it will start to sway.
Heaving someone hold a heavy bag while you do straight punches and making sure they penetrate rather than turning the bag at all would be a superior alternative. The makiwara lacks this kind of feedback.
I filled mine with mixed seeds from Holland and Barrey (cost me something like £1.49) and popcorn kernels. I find popcorn kernels when filled tight enough offer good consistancy without being hard, and offers a little give so you can smack it as hard as you like and not break your hand (like I nearly did when I was angry one night and smacked my wallbag with sand and gravel in. That was a mistake.)
Popcorn kernels sounds like just the ticket. About the right size, shape and weight to "give" a bit, yet tough and durable as all heck. The traditional mung beans are pretty expensive around here. I've been using pinto beans and some left-over rice. Cheap and have enough "give" not to further damage my fists (many years back I used to use sand, and do several thousand reps a day, including phoenix-eye fist, etc. Now that I'm getting closer to 60, I have some painful, arthritis-like symptoms in my first knuckle. Sucks for me).
The negatives for pinto beans and rice is that they break down pretty fast. On the positive side, when the apocalypse comes, I can eat my bag! Just need tortillas and salsa.
I have found that conditioning the hands by compression rather than impact has been better for me. A variety of Push-ups can strengthen and condition the hands and wrists in many ways.
Years back I first heard the adage that "Pain is weakness leaving the body". What I found out, looking back over decades of training is that "Pain is wellness leaving the body". Pain is a sign that something is out of balance and the situation needs to be attended to. Some people ignore the warnings and some people don't . I like to think I made the right choice to respect the signals my body gives off; sorta like choosing to walk briskly, instead of running or jogging. IMHO.
If your structure is proper there will be no pain. It's not about conditioning. It's about penetration, proper structure, and learning how to channel recoil to the ground through that proper structure. Any conditioning of the fists is a by-product, not the primary purpose.
If it is painful you're doing it wrong.
...Just thought that this statement (above) was worth repeating.
It's important to differentiate between the discomfort or fatigue that comes from hard training and the pain that comes from improper training. When you are young, ignorant and reckless it's easy to confuse the two.
Even when you are on the right track, you've got to remember the importance of balance and moderation.
In the beginning, I made it by myself, it's easy, i can be use, but it's ugly.
but later, I made friend with a factory boss, he made it well.
I think you can try to make once, it's no that difficult.
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