"Victim's mother in sword ban vow"

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Anth, Aug 1, 2005.

  1. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    There was one typo in mine, touch better than yours eh? :D

    I treated your comment with the same courtesy you gave me, no more no less.

    We're all entitled to our opinions. Don't assume what I knew when I entered the debate.

    I have my own views, which are tighter restrictions on weapons. (as previously said) ;)
     
  2. Lurch

    Lurch Angry Kid

    OK, getting back on track:

    Common sense would surely be to allow swords whilst banning kitchen knives. As kitchen knives are more often used for fatal assaults, this would reduce the number of murders dramatically. We can allow swords as they are seldom used in attacks, and are a bit harder to conceal down your pants.

    Seriously, though, the idea of banning swords is yet another bit of knee-jerk bullhits that would punish the law-abiding majority for the misdeeds of a few idiots who would use anything that came to hand as a weapon.

    Even if the BMA were to have their way and all pointed or sharp kitchen knives were banned, there is nothing to stop someone putting an edge on a butter knife - or even a spoon handle, I've seen a few prison movies - and bingo! Instant murder weapon. What next, ban steel? Have everyone eating with plastic knives and forks? Ban glass drinking vessels - for the sake of all those who have been glassed in the pub. Ban pubs! Ban alcohol! Ban blunt objects! Ban sticks! Ban stones! BAN PEOPLE!!!
     
  3. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Ok if you math is so good then solve the equations:

    5^X+2 = 3^2X
    0.2E^2X -4.7e^x + 0.3 = 0


    :D
     
  4. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Err, the answer is 1. :confused:

    What kind of maths is that????!?!??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    WHOA! WHOA! WHOA!

    Hey let's not take this overboard!
    Don't give 'em any more ideas than they already have! Sheesh!
    :D
     
  6. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Its mad stuff ;)

    They have got rid of many drinkinng glasses! :rolleyes: I drank a couple of beers out of plastic cups at weekend. Good job I didn't get the urge to plastic anyone! :D
     
  7. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    Here is a link to a good well writen article on knife crime in the UK, it may surprise many of you and it has plenty of stats linked for all the maths heads (including me)who are on this thread.
    http://www.spiked-online.com/Printable/0000000CA825.htm

    PS pgm316 I will stop bickering with you, I am not that bored and I got caught out besides
     
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Thanks for the link.

    Very interesting and well written.
     
  9. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Ok, we'll be friends ;)

    Good article though. Seems while the knifes are a big threat theres still a lot of over reaction to them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2005
  10. Kagebushi

    Kagebushi New Member

    if people would learn to defend themselves instead of hiding behind burocracy(i cant believe i cant spell that lol) i bet people would be more reluctant to attack others. Of course SD isnt always going to stop someone, but if theres a good chance that this guy has a few years of training under his belt, would you pick him to rob?
     
  11. Shokku

    Shokku Banned Banned

    Oh, I thought that was un the US, I had to check to make sure. I was going to say, we have enough bs laws as it is.

    I think she needs to **** off, stop drawing attention to herself, and start seeing a psychiatrist.

    Mankind cannot be held responsible for one man's actions. He acted alone.

    Sure, banning swords may prevent more deaths. Let's ban kitchen knives while we're at it, just to make sure. And hatchets, as well - they're dangerous. Let's get rid of compasses. Oh, and scissors, they have to go. In fact, let's get rid of everything that has a blade, so no one will be stabbed to death.

    Cars are dangerous, as well. Everyone has to take a bis now. Wait, a bus was hijacked once and several people were moewed down... You're all walking. And weren't planes used to take out somebuildings in the US? Everyone, you'll have to travel by ship. Wait, that could be hijacked and crashed into a pier. You'll have to swim.

    And shoes are pretty dangerous, too. You could kick someone. Actually, feet are only slightly less dangerous, they have to go too. And the most common weapon, yoir hands. Let's get rid of those. And to insure you don't bite anyone, your teeth are going to be removed.

    IGNORANCE!!! Mankind is stupid. If you forget, they will remind you. Excuse my quickness to anger with people like this, but everyone who doesn't see the error in their way of thinking after five to ten minutes should be killed... more specifically boiled... in their own blood. Why are humans so stupid. :'( I'm embarassed to be of the same species as people like this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  12. Shokku

    Shokku Banned Banned

    Well said. But... you made my post unneccesarry. :'(
     
  13. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    If you banned knives instead of swords you know... it would really decrease the amount of stabbings considering people would just import them in bulk or make them! A sword it awkward to use for a newb and a tricky weapon to master, but a knife...

    You know... this is almost as bad as the people who campaigned against their sons beind sent to war? Your son joins the army to fight for queen and country and when he gets the opportunity you complain ?
     
  14. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    banning swords in this country would be pointless. guns were banned in this country because of the dunblane tradgedy and look at what has happened. gun crime has risen dramaticly in the last few years.

    the only people it affects are those who used guns for recreational purposes and who had no intentions to use it on another human.
     
  15. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    The BMJ recently published a (government-backed) editorial calling for the banning of large or pointed kitchen knives in the UK. Carrying a knife of any sort can get you time in Merrie Olde England. I can't see why the Home Secretary won't be announcing a ban in the near future.
     
  16. Shokku

    Shokku Banned Banned

    If you want to hurt someone, there will always be a way. The government has no control over whether or not someone is hurt - all they can do is punish the one who hurt them.
     
  17. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    I think everyone should get a samari sword with training on how to use them. Than there will be second thoughts on attacking someone for no reason. My ideas are crazy but so is banning them.
     
  18. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    UK Knife Crime Facts

    Knife crime facts per www.knifeattacks.co.uk

    65% of people who carry knives have their weapons used against them
    (Be Safe Project)

    10% of 11-12 year olds and 24% of 15 and 16 year olds said they had carried a weapon in the past year.
    (Youth at risk? Communities that Care 2002)

    29% of young people in London schools admitted that they had carried a knife.
    This figure rises to 62% among excluded students.
    (Youth Justice Board/Mori survey 2003)

    One in five 16 year-old boys admitted attacking someone intending to hurt them seriously with a knife.
    (Youth Justice Board/Mori survey 2003)

    In 2004 more than 20 teenagers died as a result of knife attacks in the UK - that's almost one teenager every two weeks. (Be Safe Project)

    The United Kingdom Parliament

    The Secretary of State was asked:


    1. Mr. Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): What plans he has to tackle knife crime. [1]

    The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Charles Clarke): The Government published proposals in December 2004 in the light of which we propose to introduce legislation, announced in the Gracious Speech, to raise the minimum age at which a young person can buy knives from 16 to 18; to provide for a power for head teachers and other members of staff to search pupils for knives, and a range of other measures.

    Mr. Brown: I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. I am sure that he, like every other hon. Member, saw during the election campaign the recognition that crime rates are falling. However, there is serious concern in our communities about violent crime, especially the use of knives, which is deeply worrying. Will my right hon. Friend reassure all communities in this country that he is determined to eliminate knife crime, which impacts so savagely on not only the victims but their families and neighbourhoods?

    Mr. Clarke: My hon. Friend is right. The possession of knives by young people is one of the matters of greatest concern. That is why the measure will introduce the power for head teachers in relation to schools. We are determined to eliminate the abuse of knives and we believe that our proposed legislation will help to do that. I hope that other parties in the House will support us in trying to achieve those aims.

    Derek Conway (Old Bexley and Sidcup) (Con): Does the Home Secretary have plans to hold any sort of amnesty for handing in knives? That has proved successful in other countries. Could the Metropolitan Police Commissioner in particular be encouraged to hold such an amnesty?

    Mr. Clarke: That is often positive. The London borough of Enfield, which comes under the command of the Metropolitan police, has recently held such an amnesty, which was extremely successful. I visited the area and talked to the police officers and others involved. There is a case for it, but it needs to be introduced at the right time and led by the police in relation to the measure that I described.

    Mr. Mark Oaten (Winchester) (LD): The Home Secretary knows that the current sentence for carrying a gun in public is seven years but the maximum sentence for doing the same with a knife is only two years. Given that both are weapons and can kill, will the Home Secretary consider increasing the maximum sentence for carrying a knife as part of his proposals?

    Mr. Clarke: I will be pleased to consider proposals to that effect when we debate the Bill that was mentioned in the Gracious Speech and examine specific measures. A knife is not the same as a gun but the hon. Gentleman is entirely correct to say that we need to compare the two and ascertain whether they should be brought more in line.

    Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): Samurai swords are an especially nasty and vicious type of knife, which has unfortunately been used from time to time to commit ghastly crimes. Will the Home Secretary examine how the proposed knife legislation will apply to samurai swords? Is he considering any further restriction on the sale of such awful weapons or of people's ability to possess them?

    Mr. Clarke: It is already an offence to market a knife in a way that indicates that it is suitable for combat or is otherwise likely to stimulate violent behaviour. The police also have powers to stop and search for knives and other offensive weapons in certain circumstances. The kind of weapon that my hon. Friend describes is obviously covered by that kind of definition, but we are certainly ready to look at other measures that could help to deal with such offences.

    Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con): Should not the Home Secretary reflect on the fact that there is already a whole body of legislation on the statute book that deals with the carrying and purchasing of knives? Will he not also bear in mind that every house already has an arsenal of knives, particularly in the kitchen, to which people have recourse? Surely he would do much better to focus on enforcement than on new legislation.

    Mr. Clarke: The right hon. and learned Gentleman is right about the need to focus on enforcement, but his question illustrates a fundamental divide in the Conservative party—[Interruption.] This is a very important point. He has argued consistently, with honour and integrity, against further legislation in areas such as this, saying that such legislation represents an infringement of civil liberties. We, however, argue that there are certain types of freedom that need to be constrained for the greater freedom of everyone else in society. Some Conservative Members also accept that. There is a big division among the Conservatives on these issues, and I look forward to hearing what the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis) has to say on the matter.
     
  19. Hyaku

    Hyaku Master of Nothing

    As a kid had to empty my pockets for the police and had a pocket knife. I was clearly told that if I carried it I had "intent" to use it. And that anything that is carried could be construed as a weapon. That was some years ago.

    I don't think banning knives would help much. In Japan some serious problems have been due to using detractable art knives. Something every single student carries in their pen & pencil case.
     
  20. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    It's impossible to ban knives. It's a tool, and will probably remain so until the end of humanity. What you do achieve with "banning" it, is that you give the police the legislation nessecary to consiquently disarm and confiscate any knive-related impliment from people that they regard as potentally violent. How often have a respected dojo in england/scotland been raided by british/scottish police since the new legislations they got?

    The laws in Norway (where I live) are quite similar to that of england. (Any knifeblade longer than 8cm is illegal. Knives are still used on national costumes (the sami-knives of the lapps in northern norway have blades that can be as long as 19 cm; they're still worn in public; by politicians and ordinary citicens with the police watching without them interveining. Several norwegian Kobudo/WMA-groups do have sharp swords; not one have been inspected by police.

    Strict weaponlaws combined with sensible police results in a very efficient combo, where criminals are disarmed without too much buerocratic mumbo-jumbo, and where police looks the other way when lawful citicens carry the same stuff.
     

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