Very informative discussion about what JKD is and isn't

Well, yeah, you shouldn't do that. A good question would be: "Would Bruce Lee incorporate this technique? Or is it easily countered/ too fancy?"

 

express yourself. trust and find your own truths. If you cut the bruce lee incorporate thing out of your statement, i agree.

 

JKD to me was founded by Bruce Lee with the intention of intercepting an attacker in the most efficient way as humanly possible. It is gradually built refining and testing specific attributes that are scientific which applies to the human race. Unless people have 4 arms or three legs, lol. That is not to say the JKD practitioner cannot express him/her self depending on a situation that may arise.

 

PESILAT! Wow man pretty insightful! i agree 110%. My perception is the same.My lineage is through JERRY POTEET not directly but my instructor was or as far as i know still is a student of his. I was however lucky enough to be at a special seminar for students only where most of us practiced chi sou with him.Sorry got a little off the subject. It is very personal to me. Its a mindset. To be alive in the moment. TO RESPOND CORRECTLY TO A SITUATION AT THE PROPER SECOND. Of course this goes far beyond combat.Now i would like to say this is my way of life but i'd be lying(i'm just not that diciplined).However when i take the time to focus i feel limitless in what i can do.As in life combat is situational and pouncing at your right second can make all the difference in the world.

 

What up guys now don't take this wrong im new to the forum and im not in martial arts im just a street fighter who is good at what i do... um dont attack me please im always up to learn more but in order to defeat your opponent you must understand their technique so i just recently was challenged by a "JKD" titled sifu and to my understanding JKD is a state of mind not a fighting style, all bruce was promoting was a way to perfect your inner self and what you can do with your own skills. i do not think he meant for people to follow his exact style of fighting. he meant for you to find what makes you a perfect balance. im young and from orlando so im just throwing in my 2 cents. if bruce was alive today he would have some competition because there are many who have followed the JKD state to the "T" and yet have not used his style. I am One

 

Whenever someone starts out with "I'm a street fighter" I smell a troll at work...

 

post video. What "JKD sensei" have you challenged?

 

i have not challenged any i have been challenged by one and posting a video of a street fight is not only illegal but is stupid, i am not afraid to take on anyone i am not saying i am invincible i do learn from mistakes just like anyone. im just saying i dont think JKD is a type of style therefore shouldnt be tagged with " I know JKD" it should be more like " I use JKD" and as far as the troll comment.... like i said i am in orlando and im not hard to find... i love a challenge just bring money.

 

After studying tons of BL and martial arts generaly, I view JKD as the concentration and the appliance of older principles. Concepts like the appliance of Zen in MA, fighting the self and our ego/anxieties in every battle were actualy older than the Samurai. That doesn't make BL any less of a pioneer IMO, the guy was phenomenal.

 

Jeet Kune Do is a concept, nothing more, its not a "style" someone can teach. Dan Inosanto told me this himself. Its about opening your mind to different ranges of combat to suit you, one persons JKD is not the same as another persons. Thats why Bruce Lee said he wished he had never adopted the term, because people will take it as gospel, which sadly since his death that is what has happened.

 

Ok,
well to start this forum "what is or isn't JKD" first look in the mirror and you will have your answer study you're flaws and work towards their end.

Thats just the start.

it has been said from the start and has been said repetitively in this forum, its a concept with root examples ie "the boat" to serve as a guide to ones self for preservation and to achieve perfection.

as for the question of what JKD would be if Lee was still alive.
well it wouldn't be anything it was disbanded under Bruce Lee and only brought back by Dan Inosanto to preserve Lee's ideas. Now would Lee have brought it back if he didn't die he surely expressed no intent to do so but who knows things change with time.

"I have disbanded all the organized schools of Jeet Kune Do because it is very easy for the students to mistake the agenda as the truth and to take the program as the way."
- Si Jo (Bruce) Lee Jun Fan, 1972


He as well did not want people over thinking what he said they were not meant as metaphors but examples nothing more and he said that him self "there is no way, every ones truth is their own". So if you want to grow in the use of the JKD method you have to open your mind to the whole universe not any one specific thing/subject/spirituality, other than what is your own because if you do you will become confined, thus defeating the whole existence of JKD with in you're self and would have learned nothing.

and yes the study of his principles is necessary to JKD.

"I stress again, I have not created or invented any kind of martial art. Jeet Kune Do is derived from what I have learned, plus my evaluation of it. Thus, my JKD is not confined by any kind of martial arts. On the contrary,I welcome those who like JKD to study it and improve it." - Bruce Lee

dose this mean you have to lean WC? no not at all, will it help? yes it would as would any thing one can learn about fighting would make you a better fighter.
what is taught to students of JKD is just the principles not one specific art or way of fighting in JKD you are given root examples of effective techniques, this is not teaching one or the other but simply demonstrating for one to observe and learn from.
the true training in JKD is to absorb the techniques that work for you and be able to apply them in a real fight this is why in the JKD method we spend hours of training "fighting". (i say fighting cause its not the type of sparing where punches and kicks are not pulled.)

My instructor told me once and i have herd this said many times by other instructors, perhaps its one of Lee's original quotes.

"every ones expression of JKD is unique, based on there own physical characteristics and attributes.a JKD trained person is able to respond, to blend in to the different attacks of his or her opponents.These skills are developed from hundreds of hours of training "flight time", experiencing and testing what works for the individual under many different combat conditions and with different opponents".

"The truth in combat is different for each individual. Research your own experiences for the truth. Absorb what is useful. Reject what is useless. Add what is specifically your own." - Bruce Lee


once you can understand this then branch out learn more take it all you can, watch MMA, UFC, boxing, kick boxing and even if you run into a street fight watch and learn to find the weakness that brought the losing opponent down study various martial art styles watch your own flaws via mirror or video discover the flaw in everything then fix it become a mechanic of martial arts.
Even broken clocks have a couple working parts.

so to put it simply...

JKD is there for you to plant the seeds feed it water and enjoy the fruit at the end of your labors and to prepare the next set of seeds in one big cycle building perfection onto perfection. So stop with limitations and labels and make it your JKD.

 

dose this mean you have to lean WC? no not at all, will it help? yes it would as would any thing one can learn about fighting would make you a better fighter.
what is taught to students of JKD is just the principles not one specific art or way of fighting in JKD you are given root examples of effective techniques, this is not teaching one or the other but simply demonstrating for one to observe and learn from.
the true training in JKD is to absorb the techniques that work for you and be able to apply them in a real fight this is why in the JKD method we spend hours of training "fighting". (i say fighting cause its not the type of sparing where punches and kicks are not pulled.)(i say fighting cause its the type of sparing where punches and kicks are not pulled.)

i didn't catch my error till now when i was reading over it the red line is the correction

 

i train JKD from about 2 years and i understand that jeet kune do change your life and
and evolve your mind and budy, but this is what most of the fighting styles do, jeet kune do is different because you have no limitations

 

For me JKD in a nutshell was best described by this quote from Bruce lee.

"Take things as they are. Punch when you have to punch. Kick when you have to kick. "

I always liked that one... Simple and direct to the heart of it all IMHO!

 

Complete Rubbish! Inosanto also said "One cannot learn the principle roots of Jeet Kune do through the accumulation of many different styles for that would be like a singer trying to improve his voice by accumulating many songs. Rather it is by understanding the roots of the problem (page 145 of his book quoted from 1979)" He or his followers have clearly gone against that! People like Ted Wong, Bob Bremer, Tim Tacket and T Carruthers have not just been teaching a "concept" for decades. It is a unique art with its unique direction and mechanics, which you can only make your own once you have mastered them just like any other art. If you don't agree it is simply because you have not trained JKD with the correct dedication it needs. Bruce never used the work "Concept" to describe his art.

 

....yah

 

MMA is not JKD

As a former 'JKD guy', I think it's probably best to leave these kind of discussions to JKD people, instead of looking for answers from TKD people, Karate people, Jujutsu people, Wing Chun people, Kali people, Muay Thai people, MMA people, etc. etc. I no longer consider myself a 'JKD guy', by the way. I'm now what you might call a 'MMA guy', and I'll explain why in a just moment. What's important to note is that I am in fact a former 'JKD guy', so you can trust what I'm about to tell you concerning JKD.

Jeet Kune Do, or the 'Way of the Intercepting Fist' in Cantonese, was Bruce Lee's art and philosophy before he passed away. Jeet Kune Do is not to be confused with Wing Chun Gung Fu, nor is it to be confused with Jun Fan Gung Fu, as these are two entirely different systems. Nor should you confuse JKD with MMA, which is also something entirely different. Jeet Kune Do has a definate structure, just like any other martial art, and so it should not be confused with TKD or MMA, or anything else for that matter. JKD is JKD, so to find out how JKD people train, you have to ask a JKD person.

The first thing most people want to know are your references. I used to train in Jeet Kune Do under a certified instructor who prefers to remain anonymous. Through him, I was able to train with several original students of Bruce Lee, either directly or indirectly. Among their names are Dan Inosanto, Taky Kimura, Daniel Lee, Ted Wong, Larry Hartsell and others. I also learned a few things from Jesse Glover, but that's a totally different system. Jesse Glover is not a 'JKD guy', and he will tell you that himself. There has been some confusion in the MAP community regarding Dan Inosanto's JKDC methods, and Ted Wong's OJKD methods, but the truth is that both men actually learned from the same person, and both of them taught the same thing. Ted Wong actually got his certificate from Dan Inosanto, so the argument is pointless. There is no such thing as JKDC and OJKD, those are just names created by people from the MMA community who did not fully understand Bruce Lee's art and philosophy. There is only one Jeet Kune Do, and anything apart from that should not be confused with JKD.

I will admit, when I first heard about JKDC and what people were saying, I started to have my doubts about what Dan Inosanto was teaching. But after I finally got to know the guy, I realized that he wasn't teaching anything different from what other 'JKD guys' were teaching. There is no such thing as JKDC, just as there is no such thing as OJKD, and it often confuses me how people still think there's a difference between Dan Inosanto's methods and Ted Wong's methods. So to end this confusion, I've decided to openly share what probably should have been shared from the very beginning.

Bruce Lee studied philosophy at the University of Washington in 1961, and began teaching Jun Fan Gung Fu to fellow students including Jesse Glover, James DeMille and Charlie Woo, to name a few. At that time, JKD had not been born yet. Jun Fan Gung Fu is not Jeet Kune Do, so please do not get the two of them confused. Jun Fan Gung Fu is a version of Yip Man Wing Chun which Bruce Lee modified while he was living in Seattle, Washington. I've heard a lot of the original students at that time consider Jun Fan Gung Fu to consist of 80% Wing Chun, with only about 15% of that system including methods from other purely Chinese styles. Some of the lesser styles Bruce Lee implemented into his Jun Fan Gung Fu system are Tai Chi Chuan, Tang Lang Chuan, Ying Jow Pai, Choy Lee Fut, Hung Gar and Chin-Na, so in a big way I think you could very well consider Jun Fan Gung Fu to be a Chinese American martial art system based primarily on Yip Man Wing Chun.

Bruce Lee opened the very first Jun Fan Gung Fu institute in Seattle, at 4750 University Way, in 1963 to be exact. His assistant instructor at the Seattle school was Taky Kimura, but prior to this time Bruce Lee had also met Linda Emery, James Lee, Allen Joe, Wally Jay, Ed Parker and Ralph Castro, who all had a huge influence on Bruce Lee as time progressed. Bruce Lee published the book, 'Chinese Gung Fu: The Philosophical Art of Self Defense' in 1963, and it is the only book which was ever published during Bruce Lee's lifetime. If you read that book, you will have a very good idea of what Jun Fan Gung Fu consisted of in 1963, when Bruce Lee opened his first school.

Bruce Lee opened the second Jun Fan Gung Fu institute in 1964 in Oakland, which is where many people believe JKD was born. His assistant instructor at the Oakland school was James Lee, who Bruce awarded the 3rd rank to on March 4th, 1964. Then on August 2nd, 1964 is when Bruce Lee performed his famous demonstration at the Long Beach tournament with Dan Inosanto. That's also when Bruce Lee met Jhoon Rhee for the first time. Then in 1965, another Gung Fu master named Wong Jack Man challenged Bruce Lee to a fight at his Oakland studio. After their encounter is when Bruce Lee changed his philosophy and modified his own personal training regiment to create an entirely new system, which he called 'Jeet Kune Do'.

Jeet Kune Do was taught at the Jun Fan Gung Fu institute in Oakland, but only because Bruce Lee never changed the name of his school. Jun Fan Gung Fu is not the same thing as Jeet Kune Do, and I'll explain the difference to all of you right now. Jun Fan Gung Fu consists of classical forms, whereas Jeet Kune Do does not consist of any forms whatsoever. Jun Fan Gung Fu focussed primarily on modified Chi Sao drills. Jeet Kune Do still has Chi Sao drills, but it isn't focussed on nearly as much. I've heard a lot of the original students of Bruce Lee consider Jeet Kune Do to consist of 60% Wing Chun, 15% Western Boxing, and 15% Western Fencing, with only about 10% of that system including methods from other styles. Some of the lesser styles Bruce Lee implemented into his Jeet Kune Do system are Muay Thai, Savate, Taekwondo, Jujutsu, Judo, Western Wrestling and Chin-Na.

Now when I say Bruce Lee implemented different styles into his own personal unique system, I don't mean that he taught all those different systems at his school. It was not a MMA program. Bruce Lee only taught one system, JKD, which simply borrowed elements, principles or techniques from different styles and combined them into one formless art. By formless, I mean it did not have katas or kuens. JKD's main focus was on full-contact sparring, cardio exercizes and two-man drills. I don't know where people get the idea that Jeet Kune Do was made up of 26 different martial arts. That simply is not true. JKD was the next step in evolution from Jun Fan Gung Fu, which is why today many of Bruce Lee's students call it Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, to distinguish it from MMA and other false JKD schools that try to use Bruce Lee's fame and philosophy to teach TKD, Karate, Gung Fu, Ninjutsu, Kali, Muay Thai, Aikido, or something else which isn't necessarily related to JKD in any way whatsoever. As I said before, JKD is not MMA, and it should never be confused as such when learning it directly.

Bruce Lee opened the third and final Jun Fan Gung Fu institute in Los Angelos, California at 628 College Street, in 1966 to be exact. Notice he kept the name of his school, but by this time he was teaching Jeet Kune Do, which was totally different from what he had taught Jesse Glover and his Jun Fan Gung Fu students in Seattle, with the exception of Taky Kimura, who Bruce Lee kept updated on the new JKD regiment. Many newcomers to the L.A. studio were former students of Ed Parker, so it's no wonder why a lot of Karate guys try to implement JKD elements into their training. Ed Parker's system is not Bruce Lee's system, however, nor should anyone ever confuse JKD with Karate, Judo, Taekwondo or anything else for that matter. Bruce Lee's assistant instructor at the L.A. school was Dan Inosanto, who had actually started training with Bruce Lee prior to the opening of the L.A. school. Bruce Lee had been training with Dan Inosanto, Tony Hum and Wayne Chan at a pharmacy in Los Angelos, but the first person to actually join the Jun Fan Gung Fu institute in L.A. was none other than Daniel Lee.

Bruce Lee awarded Dan Inosanto with the 3rd JKD rank in February of 1967. Bruce Lee awarded Taky Kimura with the 5th JKD rank on November 1st, 1967. Bruce Lee awarded Ted Wong with the 2nd JKD rank on December 8th, 1967. That year, Bruce Lee met Chuck Norris, Mike Stone and Joe Lewis in Washington, D.C. at a Karate tournament. Not one of these three guys lost a single fight during their JKD training with Bruce Lee.

Then in 1968, Bruce Lee closed down all three of his schools and suddenly abandoned the ranking system for unknown reasons. He permitted a few of his students to teach JKD, but only in small groups under very tight conditions. A few years after that, Bruce Lee fell into a mysterious coma and died before his last film, 'Game of Death', could be completed. He was buried at Lake View cemetary in Seattle, Washington. His pallbearers were Robert Lee, Taky Kimura and Dan Inosanto. The rest as they say, is history.

Shortly after that, Dan Inosanto opened his own Kali Academy where he continued to teach JKD in small groups. Dan Inosanto also gave JKD certificates to a few of the guys who were at the L.A. studio before it closed. Among them were guys like Ted Wong who he felt Bruce Lee would have trusted to preserve his martial arts legacy. The only problem with this is that Dan Inosanto didn't just teach JKD at the Kali Academy, he taught several different systems and scheduled several classes for each system he taught. So you had a lot of MMA guys who learned all these different styles from Dan Inosanto, and a lot of these MMA guys started to think that MMA was JKD, or that JKD was just a philosophy used in MMA training. That's where a lot of these different opinions and misconceptions came from. But it's important to note that Dan Inosanto taught JKD classes seperate from other classes. Never once did he teach Kali and call it JKD, nor did he ever teach Kenpo and call it JKD, because he was teaching different classes at the time. Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do is not MMA, nor is it a concept which can be applied or confused with other martial art systems. You can use the JKD philosophy to help you train in other martial art systems, but at no time should you ever get JKD confused with the style you are learning.

A good example would be if I took Wing Chun's philosophy and applied it to Karate. Yes, that is MMA training, and yes, it would probably be beneficial to my training in Karate, but to then consider Karate to be the same style as Wing Chun would be absurd, and that is what people are trying to do nowadays with JKD, they are labelling it as something that it is not. I no longer consider myself a 'JKD guy' because I know the difference, and because I respect Bruce Lee's art and philosophy for what it truly is. Even though I train in Wing Chun, Western Boxing, Western Fencing, Muay Thai, Savate and all these other styles, that does not mean I practice JKD, because JKD and MMA are two totally different things. JKD has a definate structure. It has footwork, sparring drills, fighting stances and techniques which are completely unique to JKD, therefore is important not to confuse that structure with any other structure you might have learned.

I truly hope this helps.

 

No one is actually doing this though so you are pretty much answering a problem that isn't there

 

I think it's funny how people try to use the 'Tao of Jeet Kune Do' to try and justify their misconceptions. Apparently, it's now possible to learn martial arts from a book that you could read and understand in less than an hour.

^_^

Train on!

 

Nearly as funny as those who ignore the writings and notes of the founder himself in favour of their own half-assed theories

If by this you are referring to the aforementioned Tao it is revealing about you that you think it can either be read OR understood in an hour.

It is qualifies exactly why your profundities are largely being dismissed by others here - myself included