Very informative discussion about what JKD is and isn't

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Cain, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    At the risk of being pretentious he teaches "Savate" as opposed to "Boxe Francais"
  2. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Pretentious is definitely a word I associate with you.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Verily, one doth try
  4. Indie12

    Indie12 Valued Member

    No necessarily true, in the fact that Sifu Lee didn't do grappling. If you look and study the old method of JKD you'll find some components of Grappling specifically the Judo and Jujitsu methods. Joint locks, single and double leg takedowns, hair grabs, and throws he liked and incorporated. Size has nothing to do with Grappling.

    I'm not sure where you heard Sifu Hartsell say that he was experimenting with a rule set almost identical to MMA. JKD for all intense purposes has no rule set. And MMA has nothing to do with JKD. So I'm kinda curious onto that statement.

    Savate, Sifu Lee ran into in the late 60's. According to Sifu Kimura, Sifu Lee never actually studied Savate with any Instructor, but did train and trade off with several practitioners. He specifically liked the low kicks and coup de pied bas.
  5. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    But we all watched him arm triangle Paula Abdul's dad (grappling) and saw him put on proto mma gloves and fight (and foot lock) that fat lad at the beginning of enter the dragon or was it the film he didnt finish (not a Bruce lee fan, his films are slow and too art house for me)
  6. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Are you sure you're not thinking of Spike Lee? That's a different bloke.
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    That was Enter the Dragon, yes. And "that fat lad" was the legendary Sammo Hung. ;)

    I like your point though.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He touched on it but it wasn't his forte or his speciality. It's one thing to say "the art has them" and it is something else to be proficient at them. Every Gendai system on the planet has armbars and takedowns yet very few are capable of pressured execution.

    Same with JKD. In the Tao especially most of it is ripped wholesale from other sources, including "Farmer Burns" book amongst others

    Oh it most certainly does, it just isn't the ONLY thing.

    From Sifu Hartsell

    JKD does have a ruleset for training or else everyone would be maimed and or dead - I should have qualified the term "ruleset"

    I always found it interesting how "savateesque" his kicking actually was, even without the influence of formal Savateinstructor
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Fixed that for you for accuracy :)
  10. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Too art house?
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, right.

    I was scratching my head over that one too :confused:
  12. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Gives me an excuse to post this. (and perhaps Zaad will understand the term a little better ;) ).

    [ame=""]Fast Show - French Art House Film - YouTube[/ame]
  13. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I thought art house just meant "crappy slow developing, oddly filmed movie", didnt realise it was just a genre of crappy slow developing movie :p

    My bad (apologies if you're a cinema buff)
  14. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    *Fixed that for you. (That's a joke Zaad - they can be from Belgium too :hat:)

    Haha. That's what I thought you thought. If it's crappy and low budget...must be art house!

    Have to say, I am a huge fan of JKD and I'd love to train it again, but Lee's movies (imo) were bloody appalling.

    Edit: Way off topic.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
  15. l1cocbdd

    l1cocbdd New Member

    Okay, so i took an mma jkd class back in high school from a backyard type training instructor. i was in his class for about 1 1/2 years and learned (based on vague recollection) the following things:
    1. hubud lubud sensitivity incorporating trapping, using arm locks and holds
    2. wing chun stance, blocks ie tan sao, bong, fook etc and basic chi sao
    3. mauy thai stance blocks kicks punches etc

    Kali Stick drills included:
    1. Sumbrada (sticks and knife) 5 count, gunting and disarms
    2. sinawali
    3. palasut with knife

    20 years later, now that i have the time, i want to get back into it. So i joined a group (meetup group) that say they use "real world jkd". I got excited and attended. However, upon joining up came to realize after the 2nd session, the two main instructors both think that Wing Chun does not exist in JKD, that it was not applicable to Bruce Lee's JKD, and doesn't work. They do Kali, but don't believe in any of the drills i did with sticks or knives saying that those drills are pattern drills ie Sumbrada 5 count doesn't help, but that only random attacking is the way to do sumbrada, hubud is for trapping and trapping doesn't work. So we kind of ended up light sparring, but the students i sparred with didn't block and attack using the concepts i learned economy of motion etc from 5 count and seemed more like they were winging it and looked inefficient and telegraphic (like kids playing swordfight). I tried to show them the way i learned it using the 5 count drill and they said that mc dojo stuff. They said the palasut drill is mcdojo stuff too. I didn't know them well enough to argue and do not even know who's way is the "right" way to argue in the first place. anyhow, my questions are 1. are they right in saying the way i learned was incorrect? are pattern type drills bad? 2. Is wing chun not in jkd? 3. is trapping part of jkd? is it a waste of time to learn? 4. Should i stay in the group?
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    1. No they are not correct
    2. Absolutely it is
    3. Yes it is, no its not
    4. Based entirely of what you have described, no
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Number 3 imo:

    Trapping has its place but it can be covered by other ranges more efficiently for the sake of learning how to fight. Sort of like..... you might use obscure tools to do woodwork, but your basic tools do the same job, just differently and they are easier to learn and use.
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    If you Thai Clinch you are trapping already :)

    Most people confuse trapping with HIA and this is not entirely accurate. Trapping is done for one reason only.....
  19. idols11

    idols11 Valued Member

    Hannibal and Chadderz, do you think trapping works in a fight?

    I have heard the argument "mma doesn't use it so it doesn't work."

    But how accurate is that argument?
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    [ame=""]closing the distance and clinch - YouTube[/ame]

    Sticky hand to clinch, it just doesnt look like WC trapping.

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