Very informative discussion about what JKD is and isn't

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Cain, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    Both Chuck and Jhoon relay the same story: Here's a Wing chun guy who doesn't know about kicking above the waist. "I taught/encouraged him" ... "later you see him kicking high in his movies" (both said this last thing as well).

    This is with one year apart (roughly, at least). Makes me suspicious...

    By the time of the Green hornet (1966) Lee had already implemented taekwondo kicks, including a few aerials and performed them as good as anyone. Especially concidering it was American production.
  2. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    According to the late Jesse Glover Lee started working on higher kicking in the Seattle years,mostly from N. Shaolin books.He didn't learn high kicking from either of those guys,tho' I wouldn't doubt that Rhee or Norris could have helped him refine things later.
  3. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    I don't have the dvd anymore, but with it came a Jhoon Rhee interview. There he told quite frankly of Lees inability to perform aerial breaking with kicks, at least to any great degree. His kicks did not impress JR. Not only did Bruce Lee manage to excel in an extraordinary quick time - but he even equalled or surpassed Jhoon at doing these aerials.

    The sidekick - something JR worked on with Lee, turned into one of the greatest kicks of that era and perhaps ever.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  4. FoxyKirby

    FoxyKirby Valued Member

    I think what's often misunderstood or ignored is the emphasis on philosophy. While it's debated whether or not Lee actually majored in philosophy or drama, it was certainly a subject that he cogitated upon, along with psychology. Jeet Kune Do is an expression of the human body, and by obvious extension the mind; so it's not entirely kinesthetic, and thenceforth not entirely about fighting.

    Take the 'be like water' metaphor for example:

    Contrary to popular belief, the metaphor was not all that original, in which Lee cites Lao Tzu:

    Basically, its application is not limited to fighting, but "every day life". Bruce (perhaps like Maslow), believed happiness was simple to achieve. That's one of the core elements of JKD, simplicity. Simplicity, efficiency and eclecticism, or the "the economy of motion". While in many of his movies we see flowery or "flashy" moves thrown around, Lee could not emphasize enough that those would prove useless in a real fight; a real life or death situation. After all it's in direct contradiction to all three of the aforementioned principles. Of the course the framework includes a few more concepts, which can be read about in the Tao and a number of other books.

    If someone were to ask me what Jeet Kune Do is, I would have to say it's, "using no way as way and having no limitation as limitation". Partially what Lee stated in Enter the Dragon when asked about what style he adhered to,

    It should also be noted that Lee felt martial arts were not practical in 'today's' world, despite how his intentions called for taking out an opponent as quickly and efficiently as possible. This also gives insight on his views on fighting in general, especially when it came to sports and self-defense. The sentiment is also highlighted in Enter the Dragon:

    I feel this is articulated perfectly here, 10 years later:
    [ame=""]Bang Banf[/ame]

    In fact, he often carried a firearm on him--presumably his .38 revolver. He wasn't the only martial artist during the 60s and 70s that did either, Elvis also comes to mind (e.g. his meeting with Nixon). Needless to say, you can learn a lot about a person from their beliefs, especially when they, for the most part, interconnect and form a complete web.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Very little of Lee's philosophical maxims were original - the excellent "Dynamic Becoming" by James Bishop explores much of that.

    (pedantic moment - there is no debate; he majored in drama ;) )
  6. FoxyKirby

    FoxyKirby Valued Member

    I hadn't looked much into what he majored in, but've seen threads over the years of people arguing about it. I read he himself stated it was philosophy, but if he didn't, I'm not sure what his intention was in saying so.
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It's sounds better given his martial pursuits....also it is quite clear it interested him more
  8. Indie12

    Indie12 Valued Member

    Well as a Jeet Kune Do practitioner and Instructor, I can tell you this.

    1) Jeet Kune Do is NOT a combination of styles or training methods.

    2) Jeet Kune Do is NOT a style, or really even a concept. (although some would argue).

    3) Jeet Kune Do is NOT just a creation of you taking this and taking that and making it your own and calling it Jeet Kune Do, you have to understand the foundation first.

    4) Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do was merely a combination of Chinese Systems combined that Sifu Lee started teaching in the early 60's in Seattle. Sifu Lee studied and started off in Wing Chun Gung Fu, Western Boxing, and studied Fencing and Boxing. Among other systems.

    5) The backbone of Jeet Kune Do (the systems) are actually only Western Boxing, European Fencing, and Wing Chun. NO OTHER SYSTEMS are included!!

    6) Bruce Lee merely investigated and researched 26 other systems to study their weaknesses and vulnerbility.

    Hope this helps!!
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Minor correction, but important to note. Had Bruce been around today the mix would have looked slightly different
  10. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Hannibal with respect how can you be so sure about that,I mean a eye jab is a eye jab a foot in the balls is a foot in the balls,what is there to change?:)
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    If your JKD consists of two tools you have issues :)

    Kicking in Muay Thai is different than TKD is different than Savate is different than......etc so the way even teh base arts looked would probably have moved away from the holy trinity

    The blend of grappling with standup would be better understood. BJJ would have been perfect for Bruce due to his size and frame. Grappling wasn't his cup of tea due to size issues.

    Sifu Hartsell stated that Bruce was experimenting witha ruleset almost indentical to MMA prior to his passing

    The arts have moved on so much through exposure and development and Bruce would have too
  12. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Off topic but curious to know:

    Where did Lee get his savate from? Research or did he train under someone?
  13. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Thanks Hannibal however that is your opinion not a known fact:) we can all speculate as to what direction BL would of taken his JKD,my opinion is he would of kept cutting down and refining the tools he had using the "less tools, less choices, quicker reaction times" philosophy and that most of his training time would of went into developing using those tools against all other tools,we can see at the beginning of ETD that BL was experimenting with what is now called MMA, I remember reading of Jesse Glover saying he would play with various techniques but when it got serious he would..yep eye jab, low side kick to wreck knee, groin kick etc lol,:)just my opinion of course as nowone can ever really know what direction he would of taken his JKD.
  14. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    You're joking, right?

    This is a joke, right?
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Daily decrease is not and never was about having less - it was about refinement before addition and represented continual growth and evolution

    This is clearly born out by some of the absolute abortions I see passing off as ground defense in the JKD world....the stubborn dogma of not adding anything else means they are not fighters they are gamblers and poor ones at that
  16. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I'm not sure that Lee himself trained with anyone. But Guro Dan trained with Salem Assli.
  17. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I think I remember the name Daniel Duby in connection with Paul Vunak as well, though don't quote me on that.
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Correct - Singh is travelling to train with him in South Africa soon as an aside.
  19. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    My memory-fu is strong!


    Where are my trousers?
  20. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Don't know Duby. Having a glance round the about him. His "Street Savate" stuff looks ok. Edit: Lots of nice stomping, low kicks...I like it!!!
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015

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