Very informative discussion about what JKD is and isn't

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Cain, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. Cain

    Cain New Member

    My understanding of JKD......correct me if I am wrong I am goin' to post what I know of JKD till date, first things first, I am not saying that this is the fact I am just showing you the image of JKD in my mind, if I am wrong then please don't wring my neck but rather educate me :)

    Ok so here goes -

    It all started with Bruce Lee right? He studied wing chun, and Jun Fan Gung Fu, learnt some footwork from fencing [drop shift] and also tried those boxing style punches and then created Jeet Kune Do, which is the image of cross training to me.......hmm......if I were to join a JKD school I would most likely have to study wing chun, jun fan gung fu, possibly muay thai and -------- I don't know the rest.....of course there must be some aikido or judo or BJJ.......anyways this combination of the styles which cover the weaknesses of the other is JKD, a concept, not a style.

    I think it means to say that we have to study these different arts, learn all the tools we can from them and then choose what is needed and what is to be discarded and then create an individual style that suits only you the best from these tools.........this reminds me of the quote -

    if you put the water into a cup, it becomes the cup, if you put the water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, it's formless

    Ok so here is what I see JKD as - The art of cross training in which you create your own individual style from the tools which suit you the best for you - The martial artist, the individual, the human being.

    Ok now fire away your replies and feel free to correct me :D

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2003
  2. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I'm no authority on JKD, so I won't say too much

    But I have thought of JKD in a similar way, as a cross training sort of art, taking bits from other styles etc.

    How does it compare to BJJ? Which to me appears to be more of an evolving art.

    JKD won't evolve in the same way. The philosophy stays the same, I suppose its the students that evolve....
  3. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Just my thoughts, only I forgot to mention that :D

  4. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Also forgot to mention this -

    There sure are people who are totally unaware of JKD, but they cross train to cover their weaknesses, so they are doing JKD more or less unconsciously........only they have their own philosophies instead JKD's philosophies.......

    Best example of this -

    Bruce Lee :D

  5. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    To me wat JKD is ->
    The art of cross training in which you create your own individual style from the tools which suit you the best for you
    it's not cross training, its about becoming "Water"
    cross training simple will not be JKD, it's about becoming free,
    something like instantaneous expression

    i remember reading one of books by bruce saying "it should not even be called as JKD, because even that will give it rigidity"
  6. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi Cain

    I have a question for you....

    If someone cross trains in all ranges, recognises his limitations and strives to overcome them etc etc - but has no knowledge of the physical art Bruce Lee taught to his students - is he doing JKD?

    Would it be ok for him to call what he does JKD?
  7. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Hmm......first things first, I am assuming that this not a trick question :D

    Exam time :D please don't hurt me if I fail :D

    Ah.....lemme does not really matter to say that he is doing JKD, I think many ppl used to use this concept b'fore and were never aware of the term....but it was Bruce who publicly introduced describe this process of evolving better....sort of like a short form :D

    Bruce evolved the same way, but he simply called it JKD which is this process of JKD is this process of evolving.....therfore yes I think I can safely state that the person is going thru the process of evolving ie JKD :D

    Hmm.....Yoda if this is a trick question then I caught u here :D

    I think JKD is the concept, the process, not the physical art :D if u r talking about the 'physical art' Bruce taught then the answer is no since he did not train with Bruce :D

    Again if I am wrong then correct me but please don't spank me :D I am just showing the image of JKD that is inside my brain :D

    Last edited: Jan 22, 2003
  8. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    One way or another I'm sure its spanking time Cain :D
  9. Cain

    Cain New Member

    *runs away and climbs on a tree*

  10. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hands yoda the Number Two Spanking slipper :D
  11. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Re: My understanding of JKD......correct me if I am wrong

    The essence of your statement is accurate. Some of the details are off, though.

    Bruce Lee didn't study Jun Fan ... he created Jun Fan. "Lee Jun Fan" was his given name. "Jun Fan Gung Fu" was his own system. As far as I know, the only formal training he ever had was in Wing Chun. He studied (on his own and through playing with practitioners, but wasn't formally a student of them) a bunch of different things ... and read whatever he could find on any martial art he could. He studied videos of fights (especially Ali).

    So, Jun Fan Gung Fu was his own system that he put developed from his training in Wing Chun and his exposure to various other arts. Some major influences in Jun Fan are, of course, Wing Chun, but also western boxing, fencing, some Savate, and some other Chinese arts (there may be others but these are the ones that I hear most commonly referred to as influences on the development of Jun Fan). Jun Fan was developed by Bruce as a sort of "vehicle" to help the students find their own "Jeet Kune Do."

    As for the rest, I think Yoda and Andy have hit all the points I'd have hit.

  12. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Oh thanx for the info Mike, I was'nt aware that Jun Fan Gung Fu was created by Bruce :eek: ......hmm.....he must have created this style maybe for having a base if I am right, or is it another concept? :confused:

  13. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Aha! Now you're getting there! And if Jun Fan is NOT your base then as far as I'm concerened you are not doing JKD. (Spanking slipper lowered - for now!)

    You may have a good system with great training methods, and you may be effectively covering all ranges and know etc - but "JKD" should have a traceable lineage back to Bruce Lee.

    Here's an example. If I studie "Punching and kicking" from many styles - found that I liked to train in low stances to strengthen my hips and prefered straight punches to hooks, then I gave myself the ideal of ending the fight with one strike - and bought a few books on Shotokan - could I call what I do Shotokan Karate? I think not - so why do people do the same with JKD?

    Sadly the reason is that many are quick to tag the JKD label on things purely as a marketing tool - Bruce Lee sells.
  14. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Ah! I see, thanx for enlightening me Yoda :D hmm.....the Jun Fan Gung Fu thingy was new to me.

    Yeah, I suppose that's the bitter truth, I think many ppl do JKD only because of Bruce Lee, they don't care if they learn effectively or not, I think everyone wants to be the next Bruce Lee, and they think the only way of getting there is by doing JKD :D

  15. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    I may have misinterpreted what I've read/heard, but I think Bruce's original intent was to develop a new system. He developed Jun Fan. But, along the way, he realized that he had developed something uniquely his own (which he later labeled "JKD") and realized that it was impossible to codify it or teach it.

    Jun Fan became a vehicle that each student could use to find his/her own "JKD."

    So ... Jun Fan is a system that can be taught. JKD is a concept that each student must find for his/herself.

    Bruce and, as such, JKD, was all about exploration.

    JKD isn't about collecting. It's about refining. But, in order to refine, you must first collect the raw material. I think some people get lost in the collection stage and never get around to the refining stage. They become "jacks of many, masters of none" and, unfortunately, some of this misguided group have become very vocal and, as such, have caused many people to think that that's what JKD is ... i.e.: collecting and becoming a jack of many, master of none.

    On the flip side of that coin, you've got the ones who think that if you do anything outside of what Bruce did, then you're not really doing JKD. I personally think these people are misguided as well.

    If Jun Fan has everything that a given person needs, then great. But they shouldn't tell someone else, "Well ... if you incorporate XYZ into it, it's no longer JKD." JKD is *very* personal. One person's JKD has absolutely no bearing on anyone else's JKD.

    And, for the record (though I've said it before), I'm in complete agreement with Yoda. If someone doesn't have legitimate lineage to Bruce then they have no right to call what they do "JKD."

    However, I have heard of some people with legitimate lineage to Bruce who don't teach Jun Fan at all. I think it's still valid for them to call what they do JKD ... because of the lineage. If they've found that Jun Fan doesn't work for them, then that is their "JKD."

    But for someone to use the name "JKD" with no legitimate lineage back to Bruce is ridiculous, IMO ... and most of them who do it are (like Yoda said) doing it just for the marketability of Bruce and JKD.

  16. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Gee!!! A lesson with Dave Green and Mike Casto, I am a darn lucky guy :D

    Hmm.....that means having a strong base on at least one TMA if I am correct, ie Jun Fan Gung Fu in the case of JKD.

  17. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Good points Mike :p
  18. HKD

    HKD New Member

    this is more for Yoda, but if anyone whats to post go for it
    what do you think of the different jkd sets.....original,concept, kickboxing?
  19. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Not much.

    JKD can be found in any of them but is not exclusive to any one.

    I've also seen examples from all three that have no relation to JKD apart from a famous film star's name used as a marketting tool.
  20. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Good answer, Yoda :)

    I personally like the way that Dan Inosanto answered this type of question at a seminar. To the best of my recollection, it went something like this:

    Q: "What's the difference between Original and Concepts?"
    A: "There is no difference. They are both JKD. Both rooted in Jun Fan. Neither is better or worse. They are equal."


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